Subs?

[Sundog]

I've been scanning this board, and finding that, in many plces, the submarine is considered underpowered or useless.

Now, my gaming group has found exactly the opposite: submarines, in numbers, are undefeatable.

Simply put, in any fight where there isn't a time limit, and especially if the objective is to hold the field, they're completely broken. The first thing that happens is that the subs pop up and attack the destroyers. Then, what's left of the destroyers try to get into depth charge range, maybe do a point of damage, then go to the bottom.

Then since nothing can now harm them, the submarines sink everything else or drive them off the board.

Are we doing subs wrong? Is there some rule we aren't seeing?

 

[gazman]

how long do you take to dive?
I found subs very effective against shipping and very difficult to get into position to depth charge effectively.

I'm going to run the convoy game again this week and see how they work with a games experience under my belt.

Certainly if they are up against destroyers I think the destroyers will have the upper hand, but I have seen that some vessels have no defense at all against a submerged sub.

Si

 

[juggler69uk]

I think the max reloads for torps may hinder them if it is included in the OOB as I have read

 

[DM]

It is.

also some of the advanced ASW ships such as the Loch class will cause a few headaches to submariners

 

[Sundog]

how long do you take to dive?
I found subs very effective against shipping and very difficult to get into position to depth charge effectively.

I'm going to run the convoy game again this week and see how they work with a games experience under my belt.

Certainly if they are up against destroyers I think the destroyers will have the upper hand, but I have seen that some vessels have no defense at all against a submerged sub.

Si

The subs are never on the surface. They appear from hiding submerged, and use torpedoes alone.

Limited numbers of torps would help, but as-is we go after the subs at two-to-one odds (two destroyers per sub) and expect to lose both destroyers.

The problem is, torpedoes have a better range than Depth Charges, and while a single torpedo hit will kill a destroyer most of the time, DCs don't kill subs with single hits.

 

[Natxo]

I have only used a sub once, but I think that they are realistic tool. Once a sub emerges and fires his torpedoes the situation is really difficult for him.

I just waited to have a good ship to hit and used the sub to launch an attack against a battleship, and I almost shunk it. It ended crippled and was an easy price for my own battleships.

In fact I think that real torpedoes were not as effective as the game ones, but this makes the game fast and bloody.
I love it!!!

 

[Soulmage]

Isn't there a rule that once subs take a point of damage they can no longer submerge? Or am I making that up?

 

[Sundog]

Isn't there a rule that once subs take a point of damage they can no longer submerge? Or am I making that up?

No, it's if CRIPPLED they can no longer submerge. They tend to be dead very shortly thereafter.

 

[MektonZero]

The problem is, torpedoes have a better range than Depth Charges, and while a single torpedo hit will kill a destroyer most of the time, DCs don't kill subs with single hits.

A typical 3/1 DP sub taking a single 2DD hit has about a 70% chance of taking 2 damage points. If it does it is forced to the surface on the following turn and it can't attack that turn either.

Some DCs have 3DD, a 35% chance of a kill, another 58% chance of being forced to surface.

As for torpedoes against destroyers, go for it. With their limited reloads, I'd gladly have you use one of your precious salvos on a lowly destroyer. If I go Evasive, I've got a decent chance of avoiding even a 2AD beam attack.