Statistics for a Whip
- Thread starter Kesendeja
- Start date
What sort of whip? The traditional cowboy bull whip is a poor weapon at best, mostly good for noise making to scare cattle or against bound victims. I'm not saying its impossible to do damage or entangle etc, but the whip is mainly to cause pain on bare skin even when tipped with metal.
What setting will the whips be used in?
Of course you can consider the Urumi a whip, a steel ribbon sometimes up to eight feet long with a sword hilt used in some parts of Inida. I've never seen one in use, but I imagine they're quite dangerous, even to the wielder
but pretty pointless if the target is armoured.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzxtpg9HKbU
(now I've seen one in use...not my cup of tea to say the least)
So minimal damage for a whip, with the option to stun location (with pain rather than impact so damage must penetrate armour), entangle and then disarm like in westerns.
What setting will the whips be used in?
Of course you can consider the Urumi a whip, a steel ribbon sometimes up to eight feet long with a sword hilt used in some parts of Inida. I've never seen one in use, but I imagine they're quite dangerous, even to the wielder
but pretty pointless if the target is armoured.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzxtpg9HKbU
(now I've seen one in use...not my cup of tea to say the least)
So minimal damage for a whip, with the option to stun location (with pain rather than impact so damage must penetrate armour), entangle and then disarm like in westerns.
dreamer_prophet
Mongoose
What exactly are these two characters going to do with the whip?
In fact what kind or role play are you guys into??
Are you sure you've posted on the right kind of forum...
In fact what kind or role play are you guys into??
Are you sure you've posted on the right kind of forum...
We once tried to use whips in martial arts, but it was a ratherKesendeja said:
disappointing experience, in most situations they are quite use-
less - nothing at all like in the Indiana Jones movies. The sting
of a wasp is worse than a hit by a whip, and with a little adrena-
line in the blood one does hardly notice a hit by a whip. By far
the best use we found for a whip was to turn it around in order
to use it somewhat like a ball on a chain and to hit the opponent
with the handle ...
OK here goes, I think Matt_H has the gist of it.
As many have said a whip is not particularily dangerous as a weapon, but I'm sure we can find a use for it. This would be a heavy metal-tipped bullwhip with significant reach.
Training in the Whip seems exotic enough to me to warrant a separate Combat Style.
Let me know what you think.
As many have said a whip is not particularily dangerous as a weapon, but I'm sure we can find a use for it. This would be a heavy metal-tipped bullwhip with significant reach.
- Whip
Damage: 1
STR/DEX: -/13
Size: S
Reach: VL
Combat Maneuvers: Entagle, Stun Location (pain)
ENC: 1
AP/HP: 2/3
Cost: 20 SP
Special: The whip does not apply the wielder's Damage Modifier to strikes
Training in the Whip seems exotic enough to me to warrant a separate Combat Style.
Let me know what you think.
RangerDan said:
I think the damage of one is both too low, and also rather boring. It's not much fun always knowing what damage you do.
Also, rust have had some experience with whips but as I see it depends tremendously on the type of the whip - especially since I assume that rust and friends didn't use a metal-tipped whip on their skin with significant force?
I also have a hard time understanding what kind of whips rust have used, if it was no worse than being stung by a wasp. I've been whipped with towels when I was in school, and I've been stung by wasps, and even the rolled-towel whips hurt more than a wasp (short term). If taking a real whip, and making it metal tipped the pain in my view be considerable.
Also, if the pain was no greater than a wasp, why the heck has every civilisation since the dawn of time used it to punish people? Although I agree that the whip was probably never much use as an offensive weapon.
In RuneQuest 1 pirates there are some statistics for a whip where it deals 1d3 damage, which I think is appropriate. It has additional rules that it can be used with reach, can be used to grapple and a person can use it to substitute his athletics for a whip. Especially the last one is most likely a cinematic addition, and not realistic.
- Dan
What we used could be described as a normal teamster's whip,
perfect to produce a loud noise to encourage animals, but only
marginally useful in any type of combat. The instrument most
cultures used to punish people tended to be more like a scour-
ge, with several shorter and thicker strands with knots at the
end - think of a "cat of nine tails", not a normal whip:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scourge
As for the damage done by a whip, please consider that an ave-
rage human has about 4 hit points in each arm. A damage of 1
hit point is the equivalent of a loss of 25 % of an arm's hit points,
in my view a very generous simulation of a whip's damage poten-
tial - four whip hits to an arm and the arm is done, really ... ? :shock:
I think if I would allow whips as weapons in any of my settings,
they would only do subdual damage, but not real damage.
perfect to produce a loud noise to encourage animals, but only
marginally useful in any type of combat. The instrument most
cultures used to punish people tended to be more like a scour-
ge, with several shorter and thicker strands with knots at the
end - think of a "cat of nine tails", not a normal whip:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scourge
As for the damage done by a whip, please consider that an ave-
rage human has about 4 hit points in each arm. A damage of 1
hit point is the equivalent of a loss of 25 % of an arm's hit points,
in my view a very generous simulation of a whip's damage poten-
tial - four whip hits to an arm and the arm is done, really ... ? :shock:
I think if I would allow whips as weapons in any of my settings,
they would only do subdual damage, but not real damage.
rust said:
Ah, that makes some sense then.
rust said:
Well, 0 hp means a chance of a serious wound, not necessarily that the arm is completely done. It might rip it out of socket, if it is metal-tipped it might rip a fair amount of skin/muscle off or something similar. I agree that it is not very realistic, but the question is whether or not its within the realm of "Legend-Realism".
rust said:
Makes some sense yes. In any regard, I like the idea of representing a whip more as a tool for "special effects", such as gaining CMs, using it too augment athletics, disarming people etc, as a tool for dealing damage represented as your normal mainstain weapon. If we just wish a new way of dealing 1d8 in damage, we can just use a sword- a whip is "cool" when used for all the other stuff.
- Dan
I chose a damage of 1 for a number of reasons:
1) Being stabbed by a Knife (1d3 damage) is a significantly more serious injury than a whipstrike.
2) In real life even thick clothing (a leather jacket worth 1 AP) will protect you from a whip.
3) I however chose damage > 0 because it is entirely possible to seriously injure or kill a (usually helpless) person given enough whipstrikes.
I was only trying to directly reply to the OP however, and as usual Your Legend May Vary
1) Being stabbed by a Knife (1d3 damage) is a significantly more serious injury than a whipstrike.
2) In real life even thick clothing (a leather jacket worth 1 AP) will protect you from a whip.
3) I however chose damage > 0 because it is entirely possible to seriously injure or kill a (usually helpless) person given enough whipstrikes.
I was only trying to directly reply to the OP however, and as usual Your Legend May Vary
This is going to come down to how the players (and their GM) design and use the whip.
For a normal whip 1 damage seems plenty, any armour will defend against it, but its the CM's that make it worthwhile. Grapple limbs (also neck), stun location (requires damage), disarm (one handed weapons only).
Two or three characters armed with whips against an opponent could make good use of them if the idea was to capture rather than permanently disable or kill. All exactly as cinematic representations show. (except in the Clint Eastwood film High Plains Drifter(?) where three men sadistically whip the marshal to death...its not quick)
Heavier, shorter whips could do d3 damage because they are tipped with metal weights in the form of blades for slashing or hooks for additional grappling. This type loses its stun location ability as the tip fails to reach supersonic speeds like the unweighted version. Disarm of single handed weapons is allowed.
Even shorter 'cat' varieties could be almost like flails with six to twelve tails, normally only being able to entangle, or grapple limbs only if fitted with hooked ends and doing d6 damage.
On the down side, I don't like the odds of parrying with ANY of the whips above, except maybe the last cat of nine tails if made with a solid handle.
For a normal whip 1 damage seems plenty, any armour will defend against it, but its the CM's that make it worthwhile. Grapple limbs (also neck), stun location (requires damage), disarm (one handed weapons only).
Two or three characters armed with whips against an opponent could make good use of them if the idea was to capture rather than permanently disable or kill. All exactly as cinematic representations show. (except in the Clint Eastwood film High Plains Drifter(?) where three men sadistically whip the marshal to death...its not quick)
Heavier, shorter whips could do d3 damage because they are tipped with metal weights in the form of blades for slashing or hooks for additional grappling. This type loses its stun location ability as the tip fails to reach supersonic speeds like the unweighted version. Disarm of single handed weapons is allowed.
Even shorter 'cat' varieties could be almost like flails with six to twelve tails, normally only being able to entangle, or grapple limbs only if fitted with hooked ends and doing d6 damage.
On the down side, I don't like the odds of parrying with ANY of the whips above, except maybe the last cat of nine tails if made with a solid handle.
hanszurcher
Mongoose
I've seen some very ugly wounds caused by bull whips, all accidental. Nothing remotely life threatening but bloody. I wouldn't even give them 1hp of damage but they have a definite psychological impact. Bull whips are designed to drive valuable animals, not damage them. Shot loaded team whips like the blacksnake will defiantly do considerably more damage, even breaking bones.
Here's a fun little bull whip demo, thank you youtube!
Here's a fun little bull whip demo, thank you youtube!
Certainly. As per RAW all weapons in Legend have the ability to disarm using the Disarm Opponent Combat Maneuver, which is why I did not list it. Weapons with the Entangle manuever (like the Whip) get a +20% bonus to the attempt however.Kesendeja said:
And as Matt_H says, it's quite iconic.
