Starting sorcery spells

[Jay Bonser]

I am new to runequest 2 and excited to play.

I can't seem to figure out what spells a sorcerer type character would start with. I have looked through the Runequest 2 corepdf but I cannot figure out if a sorcerer starts with a spell or not. I understand that all characters start with 6 points to put toward "Common" magic spells. So where am I going wrong?

 

[ThatGuy]

A sorcerer would usually get one Grimoire with 4 spells appropriate to his culture / school / cult / etc.

Make sure to read the Sorcery chapter and the cults chapter as well.

Also, just because you are a sorcerer doesn't mean you can't kick some *SS in RQ. Nothing is more intimidating than a sorcerer that can out swashbuckle you as well. Or just knuckle up.

"Take that! It would have been a waste to turn you into a frog when I could just skewer you."

 

[Jay Bonser]

Thank you! I will take a closer look at the recommended chapters. I really like how runequest allows for different a classless system, unfortunately I am used to the sorcerer only able to wear a robe and wield a dagger (all in all a cool system).

 

[ThatGuy]

In that same spirit, consider this:

A sorcerer can use the cultural bonuses to open up the advanced Lore (Specific Theology) skill. If you invest skill points into opening and improving the "Pact" advanced skill as well, your "Wizard" becomes a God venerating holy man with additional insight into how to manipulate the energies his God suffuses into the universe.

This line of development puts considerable development into a "magic user" aspect, starting the character with 4 points of sorcerous spells, 6 points of common spells (this actually depends on setting), and however many POW are sacrificed to your deity in appropriate Divine spells (let's say 3pts). That's 13 starting spells.

Not bad.

One of them should be a "spirit blocker" type of spell, because that line of magic is this builds Achellies heel- mage-battle wise.

30 points put into the "Pact" skill should make those divine spells at least magnitude 4 off the bat, and thus, a bit tough to counter magic away.

And you could still have a heck of a quarter staff skill (or "Staff" skill- that INCLUDES a staff-sling skill! Brutal!).

*Takes off meta-gamer hat*

:twisted:

 

[PhilHibbs]

A sorcerer would usually get one Grimoire with 4 spells appropriate to his culture / school / cult / etc.

That's if you are making up a "personal" or family grimoire. If you're a Hrestoli, you get all the spells in either the Chivalric Scroll or the Liturgies:

Chivalric:
Attract (Missiles)
Damage Enhancement
Damage Resistance
Enhance (STR)
Hinder
Neutralise Magic

Liturgies:
Castback
Enhance (INT)
Enhance (POW)
Familiarity
Intuition
Mystic Vision
Neutralise Magic
Protective Ward
Regenerate
Spell Resistance

It doesn't actually say in the rules how many of these you can learn as a starting character, though. I haven't restricted it, maybe I should have. It would provoke the knock-on question, "how many spells does a Ducal Noble Sorceror character get? Four or eight?"

 

[SJE]

I believe Loz says that you start with ALL the spells in your Grimoire.

 

[ThatGuy]

Personally- and maybe I'm being hard-*SS GM here- but I would start anybody with 4 and let them have access to and learn the rest of the Grimoire instead of having to search it out in-game.

Starting a character out with 8 sorcery spells just seems unbalancing to the other players that are playing, AND I'm not sure a 17 year old would know 8 eldrich spells at a lethal level. That never happens in real life...wait, maybe that's not a good reason.

Anyway, it just seems a bit excessive. With the right Grimoire (one with fly, wrack and damage resistance and enhance DEX or INT for instance-a combination I never allow at character creation because it is too powerful it grants you something close to invulnerability, at least 1-2 more CA, and a means to kill almost any normal sized enemy) the PC may never be compelled to learn another spell again.

Its up to you though, if 8 spells isn't going to matter as far as keeping the party alive in your game...well then, the point is moot.

And your more of a hard-*SS GM that I.

And sneakier.

 

[Jay Bonser]

Thank you all for the ideas.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Personally- and maybe I'm being hard-*SS GM here- but I would start anybody with 4 and let them have access to and learn the rest of the Grimoire instead of having to search it out in-game.

Starting a character out with 8 sorcery spells just seems unbalancing to the other players that are playing...

So a Ducal Noble Sorceror would start off with two grimoires and four spells chosen from between them? That's where my "four or eight" question comes from.

 

[simonh]

It's becoming pretty clear that sorcery in RQ2 is outstandingly badass. While the other magical specialties do have their own distinct advantages and disadvantages, it's much easier to create a very powerful sorcerer than a divine or animist magician.

I'm wondering to what extent that is just an accident of the way the game mechanics panned out, or whether it reflects a concious decision on the part of the game designers that the 2nd age is an age of sorcery. That the God Learners are ascendant at this period in history and have even engineered the mythical structure of the world to favour their own magical tradition.

Simon Hibbs

 

[jolt]

It's becoming pretty clear that sorcery in RQ2 is outstandingly badass. While the other magical specialties do have their own distinct advantages and disadvantages, it's much easier to create a very powerful sorcerer than a divine or animist magician.

I'm wondering to what extent that is just an accident of the way the game mechanics panned out, or whether it reflects a concious decision on the part of the game designers that the 2nd age is an age of sorcery. That the God Learners are ascendant at this period in history and have even engineered the mythical structure of the world to favour their own magical tradition.

Simon Hibbs

The problem could then arise if I'm not playing in Glorantha, I don't necessarily want sorcery to be that badass.

jolt

 

[Mixster]

the PC may never be compelled to learn another spell again.

Off course he would, you forgot shapechange.

Shapechange is awesome due to it's versatility. If you for example have shapechange (human to feline) you can turn yourself into a lion and your enemies into housecats. Or Shapechange (human to lizard) you can turn your enemies into gekkos but yourself into lizardmen. Awesome versatility from knowing one spell.

Teleport is also good, since it gives you both the mobility to move more, and the ability to move enemies around if they run out of combat actions. Which is pretty darned awesome IMO.

I do not fully agree with sorcery being incredibly badass though. There are common magic spells out there that require only one skill but are pretty much equally useful. And the divine magic spells are sick. Alter Target is basically a 15 minute immunity to arrows. Beastform is awesome since it makes you more powerful than the creature (such as a bear) you transform into. Behold is the best long distance communication I can think of (by looking at letters and having others see through your eyes), Lightning Strike is 3d6 damage that targets evade, which is pretty awesome considering he could be out of CMs by the time you use it. And the True Spell is the best spell for making weapons better.
Divine magic also have to added bonus of always only requiring one DM to activate your spells, where with sorcery you can often spend 3-4 CMs on a single spell.

IMO, sorcery is a little harder to use in combat, easier to use out of combat and just as potent as divine magic.

I don't know that much about the spirit magic system though.