Stance on Previously Release Material

[vladthemad]

I've been doing some heavy digging into the new material, and this seems to be much more than a tweaking and adjustment of the rules. The task system and the ship combat system have received some big changes.

I'm curious if any thought was put into how this will effect previously released material? Is all previous material now invalid? Will there be conversion booklets issued for each? Is the plan to re-release everything rewritten to the new rules?

 

[MongooseMatt]

I'm curious if any thought was put into how this will effect previously released material? Is all previous material now invalid? Will there be conversion booklets issued for each? Is the plan to re-release everything rewritten to the new rules?

Good question.

We did not set out to intentionally invalidate older material (and, in fact, a great deal can be used with the minimum of tweaking, certainly nothing a veteran gamer will have issues with).

However, we did make the decision that the older material would not hold us back if we genuinely thought a change made the game better. That, really, is the ultimate aim - to make the best Traveller possible. If older material gets in the way of that, it must bow out.

 

[-Daniel-]

However, we did make the decision that the older material would not hold us back if we genuinely thought a change made the game better. That, really, is the ultimate aim - to make the best Traveller possible. If older material gets in the way of that, it must bow out.

I agree with this thought, I just wished I had known a 2nd ed. was coming before I dropped almost $200 USD getting into 1st edition two months ago.

Regardless, I do agree with the stance you articulate here. If you are going to make a new and improved 2nd ed, you must not be held back just because you offered something years ago.

 

[IanBruntlett]

I'm curious if any thought was put into how this will effect previously released material? Is all previous material now invalid? Will there be conversion booklets issued for each? Is the plan to re-release everything rewritten to the new rules?

Good question.

We did not set out to intentionally invalidate older material (and, in fact, a great deal can be used with the minimum of tweaking, certainly nothing a veteran gamer will have issues with).

However, we did make the decision that the older material would not hold us back if we genuinely thought a change made the game better. That, really, is the ultimate aim - to make the best Traveller possible. If older material gets in the way of that, it must bow out.

I've got two battered hardback copies of the MgT CRB with the original career illustrations in.

I've got two battered hardback copies and 3 LBB copies of the MgT CRB with the improved career illustrations in.

So... I'd be keen to get hold of a list of edits required to the upgrade the CRB from the old edition to the new edition. I'm not asking for Trade, Space craft building etc - just enough so that if I was to give a player one of my older books, they would still find it useful. And I will be able to free up some shelf space so I can buy the newer version, when it is available

 

[dragoner]

However, we did make the decision that the older material would not hold us back if we genuinely thought a change made the game better. That, really, is the ultimate aim - to make the best Traveller possible. If older material gets in the way of that, it must bow out.

I agree with this thought, I just wished I had known a 2nd ed. was coming before I dropped almost $200 USD getting into 1st edition two months ago.

Regardless, I do agree with the stance you articulate here. If you are going to make a new and improved 2nd ed, you must not be held back just because you offered something years ago.

I've spent ~$400 in the last two years, so you aren't necessarily alone; plus there is the time spent learning those rules, as well as time spent on designs for my campaign.

 

[vladthemad]

I've spent ~$400 in the last two years, so you aren't necessarily alone; plus there is the time spent learning those rules, as well as time spent on designs for my campaign.

I've probably spent nearly as much in the last six months. Yeah, I'm kind of late to the whole Mongoose Traveller show. Only found out about it when I found the Core Rule book at a second hand bookstore. Been buying up the pdfs left and right ever since!

At the very least it should probably be designated where it's being sold that old material is V1, and that it may not be compatible with the upcoming V2. For example, new players will feel pretty burned if they buy the current ship books to go with the new core rule book when they come next year and things don't match. It might be best to get out ahead of that before it has a change to happen to anyone.

 

[dragoner]

I've spent ~$400 in the last two years, so you aren't necessarily alone; plus there is the time spent learning those rules, as well as time spent on designs for my campaign.

I've probably spent nearly as much in the last six months. Yeah, I'm kind of late to the whole Mongoose Traveller show. Only found out about it when I found the Core Rule book at a second hand bookstore. Been buying up the pdfs left and right ever since!

At the very least it should probably be designated where it's being sold that old material is V1, and that it may not be compatible with the upcoming V2. For example, new players will feel pretty burned if they buy the current ship books to go with the new core rule book when they come next year and things don't match. It might be best to get out ahead of that before it has a change to happen to anyone.

One of the players in the campaign I'm ref of just bought the core and some books, I don't know how they feel about this. About a month ago I also took some posters that someone gave me into some game stores, I told them I'd come back after gencon, but I haven't. I wonder of my library of pdf's on dtrpg, what happens to them?

I'm on the fence right now, I was in on the T5 playtest, that was not so great. I don't think changing all ships from what has been made for the last seven years is that good. But also I don't want to get pilloried for having an opposing viewpoint. If down the road, everyone is happy and it has a ton of players, great, I'll play it. That is what brought me over years ago, the GM of a game I was player in, said how mongoose had a strong following. Hopefully it all works out for the best.

 

[AndrewW]

I'm on the fence right now, I was in on the T5 playtest, that was not so great. I don't think changing all ships from what has been made for the last seven years is that good. But also I don't want to get pilloried for having an opposing viewpoint. If down the road, everyone is happy and it has a ton of players, great, I'll play it. That is what brought me over years ago, the GM of a game I was player in, said how mongoose had a strong following. Hopefully it all works out for the best.

It wasn't really desirable to change things ship wise, but that's what was needed in order for some changes. But there's nothing wrong with the old ships they can still be used with the new rules.

 

[AndrewW]

I'm on the fence right now, I was in on the T5 playtest, that was not so great. I don't think changing all ships from what has been made for the last seven years is that good. But also I don't want to get pilloried for having an opposing viewpoint. If down the road, everyone is happy and it has a ton of players, great, I'll play it. That is what brought me over years ago, the GM of a game I was player in, said how mongoose had a strong following. Hopefully it all works out for the best.

It wasn't really desirable to change things such that it breaks compatibility ship design wise, but that's what was needed in order for some changes. But there's nothing wrong with the old ships they can still be used with the new rules. Just that ships built with one system or the other aren't going to be identical.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

No two Traveller gaming groups use the same ship the same way anyway. And no two Traveller gaming groups will use MgT 2nd Edition they same way either. I have all but one or two of the printed books from 1st edition. They aren't going anywhere. It's the entirety of Mongoose Traveller that works, not so much what the rules happen to be.

 

[vladthemad]

Well, I'm still on the fence about a lot of the rules changes...but that is what we are all here about, isn't it? If something is changed because it needed to be fixed, great. I'm even seeing a lot of answers to questions I've had regarding the old material. The new material though seems to have a lot of it's own questions, and some of it seems to have changed for nothing more than to be different than the old.

It wasn't really desirable to change things such that it breaks compatibility ship design wise, but that's what was needed in order for some changes. But there's nothing wrong with the old ships they can still be used with the new rules. Just that ships built with one system or the other aren't going to be identical.

You can't really say that the old ship's books will still be viable. Most designs don't take into account the changes to the rules like triple turrets firing linked, don't have stats on the new hull points, do have stats on structure, don't have stats on the new power system, and the numerous other changes. To make them work will require a decent bit of effort from the end user, and that's assuming he knows what he's doing.

I'm disappointed to see this, but I understand. If I had bought a few books of mixed versions and found incompatible rules, I'd feel duped and upset. I would have been completely turned off to buying any more material. It doesn't take much effort to prevent this, and I'd assume that long term loyal customers are the goal. A simple disclaimer explaining that material from one version to the other may not be 100% compatible on the back cover of hard copies and on the description of sites selling soft copies would probably do the trick.

 

[AndrewW]

You can't really say that the old ship's books will still be viable. Most designs don't take into account the changes to the rules like triple turrets firing linked, don't have stats on the new hull points, do have stats on structure, don't have stats on the new power system, and the numerous other changes. To make them work will require a decent bit of effort from the end user, and that's assuming he knows what he's doing.

Turrets haven't really changed, you can still use turrets from previous ships just fine. As for hull points that would be easy to calculate for a ship. Power points might take a little more work then hull points but wouldn't be that hard. This doesn't invalidate the ship designs.

 

[vladthemad]

Turrets haven't really changed, you can still use turrets from previous ships just fine. As for hull points that would be easy to calculate for a ship. Power points might take a little more work then hull points but wouldn't be that hard. This doesn't invalidate the ship designs.

Turrets may not have changed, but the rules governing them have. Now they fire linked or they only fire one weapon per round. That's a big change, as many previous ships have mixed turrets. Now it's much more advantageous to have a sandcaster/sandcaster turret and a b-laser/b-laser than say two sandcaster/b-laser turrets.

 

[dragoner]

I'm on the fence right now, I was in on the T5 playtest, that was not so great. I don't think changing all ships from what has been made for the last seven years is that good. But also I don't want to get pilloried for having an opposing viewpoint. If down the road, everyone is happy and it has a ton of players, great, I'll play it. That is what brought me over years ago, the GM of a game I was player in, said how mongoose had a strong following. Hopefully it all works out for the best.

It wasn't really desirable to change things such that it breaks compatibility ship design wise, but that's what was needed in order for some changes. But there's nothing wrong with the old ships they can still be used with the new rules. Just that ships built with one system or the other aren't going to be identical.

Right now I'm running ship combat with both of my own design, some which I have occasionally have posted in the fb group and here. If I update any, it is usually the FASA ACS ones, and redraw the deck plans, Marc +1's them every once in a while. All I can say is we will see what the future brings.

 

[Holman]

Hello all,

I have a quick question about backwards compatibility: what kinds of things do we know *won't* be affected by the changes in the new edition of Traveller?

For example, will NPC stats and planetary profile numbers still be what they always were? If that's the case, then something like The Spinward Marches or Spinward Encounters can be used unchanged, right? And might that go for many adventures, where perhaps only the ships will need to be reconsidered?

Will the current Trojan Reach supplement be unaffected by changes?

Thanks for any info.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I have a quick question about backwards compatibility: what kinds of things do we know *won't* be affected by the changes in the new edition of Traveller?

For example, will NPC stats and planetary profile numbers still be what they always were? If that's the case, then something like The Spinward Marches or Spinward Encounters can be used unchanged, right? And might that go for many adventures, where perhaps only the ships will need to be reconsidered?

People and places are still the same. Ships and ship weapons are a little different. The "wargaming" for ships and people have changed some.

 

[-Daniel-]

I have a quick question about backwards compatibility: what kinds of things do we know *won't* be affected by the changes in the new edition of Traveller?

For example, will NPC stats and planetary profile numbers still be what they always were?

I will leave the planetary profile for someone else to confirm for sure. But the only thing that I am aware of that would change for some NPCs is a slight adjustment in skills. For example, Changing Sensors-1 to Electronics (Sensors) -1
In the few I have looked at there were even some I could use just as they were with no adjustment.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Shawn. :mrgreen:

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

The world building is almost identical to MGT1 and is backward compatible all the way back to CT. How the basic world UWP is created is one of the few things that is almost set in stone. Some of the Tech Level DMs have been tweaked a bit, but nothing that would break any of the previously published material.

 

[Holman]

Thanks for the answers, everyone. Glad to hear it all.

 

[TriOpticon]

I know this is an old topic but I wanted to ask a couple of questions. Right now I own the 1st edition core book but have yet to play a game. I was thinking of picking up more 1E books as I look for a group but then I saw the 2E books coming out.

From reading this post there would be some conversions needed to use 1E books in 2E games. Will it be allowed to post those bits of conversions (ships, characters, etc.) so others can take advantage of it?

Just wondering if I should bother with 1E books at this point or just focus on 2E. I have no problems doing conversions as I've been in the RPG game for awhile, but I am not sure how extensive it would be as I have not picked up the new rulebook yet.

Anyone else in the same boat? Would appreciate any thoughts, etc.

Thanks.