Spinward Marches - Regina - Hefry
- Thread starter CosmicGamer
- Start date
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
BFalcon said:
That is a typo. It should be Hi, Na, In
Hi population, Industrial and Non-Agricultural. Those are the trade codes that fit the UWP.
MJD said:
Matt, I just want to say that your Behind the Claw supplement for SJG was a piece of art!!! In my personal opinion it was simply the best supplement detailing the Spinward Marches (no offence to the Goose). No matter what version of Traveller I played, that book was an intergal part of my gaming. Thank You!!
Well, there are so many widely different ways to play campaigns in theSomebody said:
Third Imperium setting that for me the information "canonical / non-ca-
nonical" is among the least interesting ones, while informations like "mi-
litary", "trading", "diplomacy", "espionage" and thelike give me a much
better idea of what to expect.
Garnfellow
Cosmic Mongoose
But frankly, 99.9999% of all Traveller canonista crises are over matters so trivial that most of the hard-core fanbase would never even know the difference.Somebody said:
I don't see many arguments over "I want to put airships, hawkmen, and rayguns on Regina," but instead impassioned sniping over things like how would a Sector Duke properly notarize an Imperial Warrant, and how many copies would need to be made and where would these copies be filed? Are these records maintained at a subsector level? Sector? What about domain?
The OTU is so huge and diverse, and published canon is so limited and conflicted on even the most developed of sectors, that there is left an enormous amount of room for interpretation, interpolation, and extrapolation. There really are far less absolute rules than many of the canonistas would admit. (And to me, that's just the way it should be.)
And curiously, what I often find is that the canonistas, though they are almost always trying to claim they argue on behalf of no less than the very Authority of the OTU (tm), are usually really only peddling their own pet MTUs.
Is there piracy in the Imperium? Good arguments can be made for both cases, which is why that particular debate has historically been fought with such vigor.
The canonistas, depending on their personal preference and the needs of their argument, will pick and choose what books really constitute canon. "Well of course the DGP books are canon," or "Anything in Traveller's Digest needs to be taken with a grain of salt." Likewise, game mechanics might be relied on heavily to infer on aspects of OTU reality, or rejected outright as "only rules."
I love immersion in fictional worlds and it's a testament to the OTU that it can so captivate the imagination of its fans. But most of the canonista angst is being wasted on arguing over the equivalent of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
If you were playing in a rocking Traveller game using any system, would you really get hung up if the GM described Regina -- probably the most detailed system out there -- as a double star system rather than a triple? Would that really ruin your whole day, and prevent you from fully getting into pretending to be a star-faring lion man armed with a machine gun?
Really? How many people do you think would even notice the difference?
Garnfellow
Cosmic Mongoose
I actually agree with your personal tastes here -- I also greatly prefer human PCs. If a player really really really wanted to play something nonhuman I'd probably allow it, but it's not something I'd encourage. And while it wouldn't be my own choice, I certainly wouldn't turn up my nose at playing in someone else's rocking Trav game that happened to allow alien PCs.Somebody said:
But I think you also inadvertently make one of my points quite nicely: every single person banging on the old "OTU OR DEATH!" drum is really just banging on a MTU drum.
I might not like it, you might not like, but alien PCs are firmly established in Traveller. They've been there essentially from the beginning. It's not like this was an optional rule first suggested by Mongoose in 2009.
So the moment you or I start excluding alien PCs, we have left the OTU behind and are starting to enter MTU space. (And that's OK!)
Somebody said:
I think this is a perfectly reasonable position but again -- it makes my point. You're looking for a setting that matches your personal preferences. Your idiosyncratic interpretation of what the OTU is and isn't. (And again, that's OK!)
Somebody said:
I agree with you that a setting with warpdrives and replicators would be far enough from the OTU to give anyone pause.
But I also think that's a straw man: I don't see the canon fights over anything as radical as a fundamental re-writing of the basic technological assumptions that underlie the game.
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Somebody said:
If the gas giant happens to be in the right orbit relative to the observers location there can be a slight dimming in the light of its star. Alternately a slight wobble due to the gravitational pull of the gas giant might be detected. However this isn't a guarantee that it is indeed a gas giant.
serene_muse
Mongoose
Somebody said:
f) when people want to discuss it with other people
For all the talk of canon as providing a common ground for discussion, I don't think it's helped one bit. Perhaps because people tend to spend too much time discussion what is or is not canon etc. instead of just actually discussing. :twisted:
I'm not writing for the OTU so I make use of any materials I find useful (Traveller or non) and discard the rest.
general pet peeve: If canon is very important to you, please please PLEASE spell it correctly. "Defending cannon" makes me want to get out some grapeshot and get ready to spike the cannon! (Hrm spiking canon, now there's a thought! :wink: )
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
AndrewW said:
The original Aslan Alien Module (CT) had rules for detecting a GG in star systems.
What is OTU? That is the real question at hand. Is it just a playing field or is it the rules themselves. We all have different interpritations. To me the OTU is the 3rd Imperium and the "official" history. The rules are just Traveller. If you grab the rules and start playing a Serenity based campaign or a Star Wars based campaign then this is fine.
If you grab the rules and play a campaign based on the 3rd Imperium but change some things (such as the great Solomani Confederation did not lose Terra and was actually not as racist as the dirty impies made them out to be
) then you are playing with the rules and MTU or YTU.
Actually if you are the GM and your players don't really care, you can do anything!!
. For example in 1st edition AD&D, I never used weapon speed. Just something that I thought bogged down the game. The players were fine with it so it was ok.
1st edition AD&D is a good example. The World of Greyhawk was the initial Official Universe. But I played and DMd in many campaigns outside of the offical universe. But every pez goblin I fought was 1d8-1 hp. The rules didn't really change.
But it really does not matter. Again as soon as you purchase the product you can change anything and everything. As long as you have a group of players who will agree to it, then it's really ok.
I would rather discuss something more productive, such as how large the fief of a Baron is or what is the social standing of a Baronnet. Do Knights get fiefs? If so, then is Knighthood hereditary? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin .
If you grab the rules and play a campaign based on the 3rd Imperium but change some things (such as the great Solomani Confederation did not lose Terra and was actually not as racist as the dirty impies made them out to be
) then you are playing with the rules and MTU or YTU. Actually if you are the GM and your players don't really care, you can do anything!!
. For example in 1st edition AD&D, I never used weapon speed. Just something that I thought bogged down the game. The players were fine with it so it was ok.1st edition AD&D is a good example. The World of Greyhawk was the initial Official Universe. But I played and DMd in many campaigns outside of the offical universe. But every pez goblin I fought was 1d8-1 hp. The rules didn't really change.
But it really does not matter. Again as soon as you purchase the product you can change anything and everything. As long as you have a group of players who will agree to it, then it's really ok.
I would rather discuss something more productive, such as how large the fief of a Baron is or what is the social standing of a Baronnet. Do Knights get fiefs? If so, then is Knighthood hereditary? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin .
Well, I never played walk-in games with strangers. In that setting (pun intended), having certain expectations about what the advertised game setting is gonna be would be reasonable - for Traveller that would mean anything in that version's books unless stated otherwise (like FTL, and Vargr, etc). A Ref who didn't make blatant variances known pre-game or failed to answer specific questions pre-game, would do a dis-service to players. (Like in Somebody's case not answering wether 'canon' aliens would be part of the game.)
Reality is that 5 people can read the same text and come away with 3 different understandings of what was written. Because of this alone, it is the players responsibility to defer to the Ref about details. Since everyone's interpretation of things is different - and it is the Ref's game. A player who just wants to play their own interpretations of the rules and settings - isn't a player - they are a wanna-be Ref.
And if that is the only way they are gonna be happy - and thus gonna get disruptive and emotionally upset over a game - the purpose of which is enjoyment - they are free to (i.e. asked to) leave my table.
The 'canon' debates on the internet and elsewhere are sadly laughable - since they are essentially nothing more than ego contests. Opinions, often convoluted and rationalized into fact, to be argued about in the interest of 'winning' some virtual truth prize. Traveller is a work of fiction - most especially the 'setting' - using solely words for its definitions (i.e., not reality). Since it is a commercial enterprise - the only true 'canon' can come from the license holders. Only they can truely define 'canon'. Discussions, respect for others and compromise all make natural sense given this reality. Unfortunately, ego and arrogance are also natural. YMMV.
Reality is that 5 people can read the same text and come away with 3 different understandings of what was written. Because of this alone, it is the players responsibility to defer to the Ref about details. Since everyone's interpretation of things is different - and it is the Ref's game. A player who just wants to play their own interpretations of the rules and settings - isn't a player - they are a wanna-be Ref.
And if that is the only way they are gonna be happy - and thus gonna get disruptive and emotionally upset over a game - the purpose of which is enjoyment - they are free to (i.e. asked to) leave my table.
The 'canon' debates on the internet and elsewhere are sadly laughable - since they are essentially nothing more than ego contests. Opinions, often convoluted and rationalized into fact, to be argued about in the interest of 'winning' some virtual truth prize. Traveller is a work of fiction - most especially the 'setting' - using solely words for its definitions (i.e., not reality). Since it is a commercial enterprise - the only true 'canon' can come from the license holders. Only they can truely define 'canon'. Discussions, respect for others and compromise all make natural sense given this reality. Unfortunately, ego and arrogance are also natural. YMMV.
IanBruntlett
Emperor Mongoose
That's an idea for a charity fund raiser :- print copies of a book - e.g. Spinward MarchesJame Rowe said:
, get the people involved to sign them and sell them at a premium with profits going to a worthy cause.I've played with (and stopped playing with) players who insist that the setting must be how they perceive it, and who cannot conceive of a version that's different. Giving rise tro conversations like:
Player: "The Lunar Army don't look like that. They look like Romans"
Me: "Nope, though some regiments do."
P: "They look like Romans. One early supplement said they do"
Me: "Greg Stafford, who invented the setting, says that different regiments from different regions are equipped differeently. Some look a bit like Romans, some don't"
P: "The Lunar Army looks like the Roman Army."
Me: "Do what you like ina game you run. Me, I like the idea that they're more varied and since I'm running this game, I'm telling you that the guys in front of you do NOT look like Romans."
P: "The Lunar Army look like Romans".
etc.
Player: "The Lunar Army don't look like that. They look like Romans"
Me: "Nope, though some regiments do."
P: "They look like Romans. One early supplement said they do"
Me: "Greg Stafford, who invented the setting, says that different regiments from different regions are equipped differeently. Some look a bit like Romans, some don't"
P: "The Lunar Army looks like the Roman Army."
Me: "Do what you like ina game you run. Me, I like the idea that they're more varied and since I'm running this game, I'm telling you that the guys in front of you do NOT look like Romans."
P: "The Lunar Army look like Romans".
etc.
