Soldier / Scholar combo ideas and new characters...

[flatscan]

Hey all-

I've got a player in my game that is a bit jealous of the other PCs. He built his character as a Soldier with plans on later taking levels in Scholar. As such he geared his guy more towards archery and Finesse fighting with a nice mix of social skills. The other two characters in the game are both soldiers. One is a Barbarian / Soldier mix and the other is straight Soldier. So, the Soldier / Scholar doesn't do as well in combat as the other two characters and now the player is talking about making another character. The Soldier / Scholar does fit the role as Faceman in any social situation quite nicely. And as the other two characters are already heavy on the bruiser side of the equation there really is no need for another tank. Any GMs out there have some advice for a situation like this?

Also, I'm not sure what the best way to handle new characters is. I don't want to just let a new character be as powerful as everyone else as they didn't "earn" their level. But at the same time I don't want the player to feel like they've got a useless character because he's 1st level and can't keep up with the higher level characters. I know that a 1st level character would level pretty quickly due to the higher level challenges he'll be facing, but that also hinders what challenges the group could take on, 3 5th level characters being a helluva lot more dangerous than 2 5th levels and a 1st level.

Any advice on this is much appreciated.

 

[librarycharlie]

There are a number of options, but they fall under two categories:

1) Benefits to long-term characters

2) Penalties for newbies


Under the first, characters may have earned items of some power (akbitanian items, alchemical things, good armor, etc.) which new characters simply do not have access to. Additionally, one GM handed out a skill point on occasion (I know, totally against the rules) when the situation merited it. After an adventure on a ship during a storm, everyone gained a rank of balance. These kinds of small bonuses make characters more powerful, but only nominally so, than newbies.

Under the second column, new characters can generally start with either less experience (not by level! Just give them a 5-20% penalty to the current party's xp) or less equipment. If the new party member is rescued naked from a sorcerer's dungeon, he's at a disadvantage to the guy with 2 flamberges, a personal army of slaves, and full plate armor, even if they're both the same level.

 

[Spectator]

simple fix,
stop doing dungeon crawls where his social skills are useless and let him use his skills in the urban environment where his charisma will go further, heck let him earn extra EXP for social encounters whether gather info, listen, seduce, etc...

like you said having 3 tanks is kinda BOOORRRING

 

[Ichabod]

Well, let's see, if you are playing by the book:

1. You are way, way better off starting as a scholar and switching to soldier due to the awful first level skill rank rules.

2. Scholar should have defensive blast, which has been deemed to be broken by a number of people. It's certainly an interesting tactical option.

3. Archery sucks.

4. Finesse fighting sucks.

I really wouldn't worry about earning levels. Players should be having fun and if a character isn't fun (for whatever reason, maybe it's *too* combat oriented), then move on.

It's not necessarily fun to adventure with someone much weaker than yourself. I don't think you even need to reward the other players, it hardly penalizes them to have someone create a more desirable character.

If you feel it's unfair to bring someone in at higher level, toss some stuff to the other characters. Soldiers could certainly use skill ranks. Give them lame feats, of which there are many, or give them a one time reroll or bonus to die rolls.

 

[Strom]

Does your player have the Hyboria's Finest supplement? They have some recommendation options for the Contemplative (Soldier/Scholar) multi-class as well as a feat progression and a list of the strengths and weaknesses of the class - and combat is definitely a weakness. There is a variant rule that you might consider:

Intuitive Master

The comtempalive can observe the combat situation around him as a full round action , attuning himself to it's ebbs and flows. The character makes a Wisdom check (DC 20) with a bonus equal to half his combined soldier and scholar levels. If the check succeeds, for the rest of the combat the comtemplative adds his Wisdom modifier to all attack rolls for the deuration of the encoiunter. He can take this ability as a Formation Combat style, but the character must have the Knowledge is Power class ability.

 

[Krushnak]

well there are 2 feats i would suggest to anyone going for a finesse fighter and they are both from hyboria's finest they are: analyst and combat master. one allows int to be added to the attack roll and the other wisdom, they stack together and with either str or dex but require specific circumstances(ones a one target at a time and the other needs a full fight going on) which make it easier to beat their dv by their dr.

yes archery is weaker than melee because it takes more feats to use but in the right circumstances can be devestatingly effective.

if what the party is doing is alot of combat and ruins/dungeon crawling then if he remakes his character i would suggest theif/soldier instead of scholar as the theif is just as apt at social encounters but better suited to fighting than a scholar and sneak attack works really well with finesse.

 

[Majestic7]

Although I agree with what Spectator said, I must add that Soldier/Scholar can be a devastating combat monster with right choice of sorcery schools. Curses and Oriental magic for Gelid Bones causes havoc, while Nature should not be underestimated. One way to boost his combat options might be to start using poison. Apples of Derketa, for example, are devastating and delivering them with arrows is not a bad choice. Scholars have a lot of skill points, which can be used to get high Herbalism, Alchemy and Knowledge (Nature) to aid in finding and creating poison. If the characters are located north, Upas Tree is always an option. You can find those pretty much everywhere and they are especially lethal to sorcerers. Improved Feint + Power Attack combined with a two-handed weapon is one way to make his enemies explode in a bloody mist, as sorcerous scholars often have good charisma and bluff is their class skill. Improved Feint might be good for any sorcerer using touch spells. Intricate Swordplay is good for better survival.

What comes to new characters, I give both bonuses to old characters and penalties to new ones. New characters start either one level lower or if the old ones are at least half-way to the next level, on same level but with less experience. Veteran characters have earned things on their adventures, mainly money and equipment, though I give freebie bonuses now and then. For example, when one of the characters saved against black lotus poison a dozen times in a row, I gave him +2 bonus to all saves vs. lotus poisons from there on for building up natural resistance.

 

[Ralph]

Scholars have a lot of skill points, which can be used to get high Herbalism, Alchemy and Knowledge (Nature) to aid in finding and creating poison. If the characters are located north, Upas Tree is always an option. You can find those pretty much everywhere and they are especially lethal to sorcerers.

Sorry to be a bit OT, but where is the best write up of Herbalism, including how to find and prepare concoctions?

Thanks
Ralph

 

[Majestic7]

Sorry to be a bit OT, but where is the best write up of Herbalism, including how to find and prepare concoctions?

My guess would be Hyboria's Fiercest.

 

[librarycharlie]

A comprehensive herbal list can be found in the Tito's Guide. A scholar who prints the applicable herbal pages and spends an hour every day searching for herbs is EXTREMELY powerful.

Herbs can boost wisdom (witch hazel), curses (Agaric), and any roll (Holly). This means that any curse attempt by a skilled herbalist is at +3 or so to his magic attack roll. Combine this with a demoralize opponent intimidation check and it's effectively a +5. When casting spells that maim or kill, this is a tremendous advantage.

They can also prevent animals (Mullein), lycanthropes and vampires (Wolfsbane) from coming near them.

They can enter Fighting Madness at will without the use of the feat (Ignis Weed). Useful as a small pouch to give your fighter-buddies.

Or they can use an easily-crafted Cloves salve to improve NPC attitudes for one minute, effectively a charm spell with no save.

Overall, scholars are powerful more for the alchemy and herbalism they can do than because of their spells. When Conan confronts Natohk, the sorcerer doesn't try to use any spells, but does hurl some demonfire globes... and he (according to SoSkelos) was 17th level.

 

[Ralph]

Thank you.
For some reason I thought I'd seen a longer write up, but they seem to have most things covered.
I'll stop hijacking the thread now.
Sorry.

 

[flatscan]

Thanks all for the suggestions. You've given me a lot to work with. The player doesn't have Hyboria's Finest, but I do so I'll just have to sit with him and hash it all out. As for doing dungeon crawls we've only done one major crawl through the Elephant Tower, but there was a fair share of social encounters before the PCs actually entered the tower. Right now I'm running them through the adventure in the Shadizar boxed set and he's been able to put his social skills to a decent bit of use there.

Still mulling over what to do about new characters, but I'm taking all your suggestions into consideration.