In the description of the soldier's formation combat, it says, "whenever the soldier has two allied soldiers who have selected the X ability adjacent/within 10' of him". Does this mean that these abilities are useless in a PC group unless there are two other PC soldiers with the same ability? This seems very limiting to the point of making the ability useless.
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Soldier Formation Question
- Thread starter DimitriX
- Start date
Krushnak said:That is why soldiers are given the Officer ability so they can whip all those lazy thieves and unwashed barbarians into proper fighting shape.
He still needs another soldier to be present though.
It depends partly on how big the party is and how many characters will take at least three levels in Soldier.
But yes, I'd say it was of more use to npcs. Hence I'd grant the bonus to suitably equipped Soldiers regardless of the presence of other soldiers - and allow Officer to affect other characters similarly.
But yes, I'd say it was of more use to npcs. Hence I'd grant the bonus to suitably equipped Soldiers regardless of the presence of other soldiers - and allow Officer to affect other characters similarly.
He still needs another soldier to be present though.
No he doesnt. It allows him to count other people as if they were soldiers but they must still meet the restrictions for the formation. One of the reasons that makes the skirmisher formation always good to take as it only requires them to be wearing light or no armour.
I see now with the Officer ability that the soldier can essentially count any other allied character as a soldier with the same formation training assuming that those characters meet the other requirements (mounted, within 10', etc).
That does mean that this ability won't be much use until 5th level. But, I suppose with all of the extra feats they get this isn't such a big deal.
That does mean that this ability won't be much use until 5th level. But, I suppose with all of the extra feats they get this isn't such a big deal.
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
I'll repeat here what I've said before:
The Soldier is not an attractive class for PCs. Not as a main class anyway. It's a quick way to get some extra feats, but players who want that will just take 2 or 4 Soldier levels as minor multiclass.
It seems that all D20 publishers realize that the SRD Fighter is unattractive for players and needs to be fixed. And they all fall for the same fallacy. They improve the class's fighting abilities. For instance, Pathfinder adds attack/defense/DR boosters through the roof. And Conan adds Formation Combat abilities. But this is totally missing the point.
The Fighter's/Soldier's problem has never been that he couldn't fight well enough. The problem is that he can't do anything _except_ fighting. This is the very reason why players don't like the class. With the Officer ability, the Soldier can help other PCs fight better, but he himself _still_ can't do anything except fighting. He can't even perceive if there _is_ something to fight in the area!
The way it is now, the Soldier is mainly relevant for the GM as main NPC opponent type.
IF you want to make the class more attractive for PCs, you basically need to give them more and better skills. For instance, instead of plain Formation Combat you could allow the character a choice at the respective levels between a new or improved Formation and an extra class skill or two. Something like this:
Sentry - the Soldier gains Spot and Listen as class skills
Scout - the Soldier gans Hide and Move Silently as class skills
and possibly others.
Those choices could also be written to increase the skill points per level by one each. On the other hand, you could possibly tie certain prereqs to these specials. Just a thought.
The Soldier is not an attractive class for PCs. Not as a main class anyway. It's a quick way to get some extra feats, but players who want that will just take 2 or 4 Soldier levels as minor multiclass.
It seems that all D20 publishers realize that the SRD Fighter is unattractive for players and needs to be fixed. And they all fall for the same fallacy. They improve the class's fighting abilities. For instance, Pathfinder adds attack/defense/DR boosters through the roof. And Conan adds Formation Combat abilities. But this is totally missing the point.
The Fighter's/Soldier's problem has never been that he couldn't fight well enough. The problem is that he can't do anything _except_ fighting. This is the very reason why players don't like the class. With the Officer ability, the Soldier can help other PCs fight better, but he himself _still_ can't do anything except fighting. He can't even perceive if there _is_ something to fight in the area!
The way it is now, the Soldier is mainly relevant for the GM as main NPC opponent type.
IF you want to make the class more attractive for PCs, you basically need to give them more and better skills. For instance, instead of plain Formation Combat you could allow the character a choice at the respective levels between a new or improved Formation and an extra class skill or two. Something like this:
Sentry - the Soldier gains Spot and Listen as class skills
Scout - the Soldier gans Hide and Move Silently as class skills
and possibly others.
Those choices could also be written to increase the skill points per level by one each. On the other hand, you could possibly tie certain prereqs to these specials. Just a thought.
treeplanter
Mongoose
well as usual I don't agree. I boosted a bit skills for Soldier (they now get 4 x 4 instead of 2 x 4 at first level)
but I mean they really are the best in combat. You can't have everything. You can easily mixe with borderer, noble or nomad if you want a bit more skill. You can also sometime burn a feat on a skill-boosting feat (since you can afford it unlike other class)
but I mean they really are the best in combat. You can't have everything. You can easily mixe with borderer, noble or nomad if you want a bit more skill. You can also sometime burn a feat on a skill-boosting feat (since you can afford it unlike other class)
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
That's why I'm writing "IF" in capital letters.
In my opinion, each class should be playable in itself, without the mandatory need to add other classes to make it playable. This is a problem with several D20 classes in general, however.
In my opinion, each class should be playable in itself, without the mandatory need to add other classes to make it playable. This is a problem with several D20 classes in general, however.
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
Of course there are. But I think it would be preferable if Soldiers didn't have to be super-brainy to get by. An Int of 14 (which is already pretty good) might be enough if you play with a consolidated skill list, but certainly not with the standard list. (Then again, no class gets enough skill points with the standard list, but that's another matter.)
treeplanter
Mongoose
Skills are relative
if you think NONE of the class get enough skills point then just play with the DC
if you think NONE of the class get enough skills point then just play with the DC
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