Skill Learning Times

[rust]

The Edu stat should be an important part of skill learning.

Yes, indeed, and this causes me some headaches. Not only that a higher
EDU should make learning more easy, EDU probably also should be rai-
sed by learning new skills, especially by science skills - a character who
learns Level 1 in ecology, marine biology or oceanography can hardly
avoid to improve his education by this, too, I think.

 

[far-trader]

As regards Edu being primary to learning, I have to disagree. I've known several who could fairly be put in the Edu 2 range (well, maybe more than 2, but low) who also have remarkable skills...

An expert mechanic for one (Mech, Elec, etc.), some excellent athletes (Sport skills, and including Medic), more than a few farmers (also including excellent Mech, Elec, Computer, Commo, etc., etc.), some long-haul truckers (Driving of course, but also Nav, Admin, Mech, etc.).

I've also known a few high Edu people who had no clue and little aptitude when learning some (primarily physical) skills. Gifted at book learning and memorizing stuff or doing higher math, but not so much at some skills.

EDIT: Come to think, I'd say it might make more sense that some skills have a prerequisite stat level. Rather than seeing your Edu go up for learning Science I'd say you'd need a minimum Edu level to learn a Science skill level. And it might well apply to other skills and stats too. It'd be pretty hard (impossible) to become a high level athlete in some sports with low physical stats.

EDIT 2: Qualified the note about math skills above, I meant higher math, calculus and beyond, not basic math

 

[rust]

As regards Edu being primary to learning, I have to disagree. ...

So a high EDU could perhaps be helpful to learn academic and science
skills, but not so for "practical" skills ?

 

[far-trader]

As regards Edu being primary to learning, I have to disagree. ...

So a high EDU could perhaps be helpful to learn academic and science
skills, but not so for "practical" skills ?

That's been my experience and observation yes. Also see my EDIT note above.

 

[rust]

Thank you, good points, I will think about them.

 

[BP]

About skill levels...

One doesn't need even level-0 to necessarily attempt a task. Firing a gun requires absolutely no skill or training. Being successful at it - well, then such is handy.

In the case of a gun, someone trying to fire it may run into the issues of making sure the safety is off, chambering a round, clearing a jam, accounting for kick-back, etc. This is were level-0 training/familiarity comes in. In game mechanic terms, this is simply represented by a DM to success.

MGT gives a definition of skill levels on pg 6 of the Core rule book. Skill 0 is competent, but inexperienced (also mentions 'trained'). Level 1 is trained with experience. Level 2-3 is a skilled professional.

In the game mechanic - non-skilled task checks have ~8% base chance of success. Skill 0 has 42%. Skill 1, 58%. Skill 2, 72%. Skill 3, 83%. Skill 4 and above has greater than 92% base chance.

Note the base chance refers to task checks with no added characteristic DMs or timing DMs and for average difficulty.

About EDU...

Never liked this characteristic much. Its just too generic and, yet, also too limited. EDU could be formal or informal - and any basis on skill levels would have to be skill dependent. One could be highly educated in a trade, yet be essentially unschooled in say science or social areas.

Using EDU in the context of task checks is even more problematic. Ex: Battledress systems check: EDU, 1-6m, Ave. Yeah - sure. This would more about to Battledress skill and maybe INT - EDU is quite a stretch, IMO.

Like Social Standing, Education is more of a background part of a character description that should also be subject to change (and setting). In MTU, I use EDU as a measure of arcane knowledge and SOC as a measure of social aptitude. Not to say this isn't how most of the task checks work out in MGT, at least for SOC.

 

[Treebore]

Yeah, I have never really understood what the EDU skill was supposed to really represent. I am fairly educated, first as a Missile Technician which taught me about electronics, high pressure air, high pressure hydraulics, nukes, Training P. Officer, and other things. Then I went on to college and got my degrees in Psych and Biology and a handful of minors. I then went on to my careers in teaching, custom jewelry making and gem stone cutting, as well as being darn good at identification, and now a farmer and dog trainer and running our charity. I am also a fair mechanic on cars and tractors, am fairly knowledgeable about computer software and can change out components with ease and am fairly knowledgeable about a great number of other things, including use of firearms, basic knife fighting and hand to hand.

So was everything I learned based on my INT or my EDU? How do I determine which?

I haven't really found a answer to that line of thought that I like.

 

[rust]

In BRP the EDU stat stands for both years of formal education and years
of practical experience, for example an EDU of 8 is the equvalent of gra-
de school and an EDU of 20 the equivalent of a doctorate. The EDU roll
or Knowledge roll is used to determine whether the character remembers
some piece of general knowledge, for example that spiders have eight
legs or that it can be unwise to pour water into a container filled with acid.

In my view this use of EDU makes some sense, and I have attempted to
translate the idea into Traveller terms, but gave it up because it seemed
to complicated to integrate it into the Traveller mechanics the way I would
have liked it.

 

[CosmicGamer]

One doesn't need even level-0 to necessarily attempt a task. Firing a gun requires absolutely no skill or training.

MGT gives a definition of skill levels on pg 6 of the Core rule book. Skill 0 is competent, but inexperienced (also mentions 'trained').

I view gun skill as a combat skill.

To me:
Someone coming out of several weeks of military boot camp has a level 0 gun skill. Someone who's dad spends one day teaching them to operate a gun and shoot at cans in the back yard would have no gun skill.

Never liked this characteristic much.

Me too.

 

[rust]

Those players have a tendency to surprise me ... :shock:

We discussed the system described in the thread's opening post, and the
players voted for longer learning times.

The times now look like this (partially in German, but the meaning is ea-
sy to see, I think - "Stufe" = Level, "Woche" = "week"):

Physical Skills
Stufe 0: 1 Woche
Stufe 1: +2 Wochen
Stufe 2: +4 Wochen
Stufe 3: +8 Wochen
Stufe 4: +16 Wochen
Stufe 5: +32 Wochen
Stufe 6: +64 Wochen

Mental Skills
Stufe 0: 2 Wochen
Stufe 1: +4 Wochen
Stufe 2: +8 Wochen
Stufe 3: +16 Wochen
Stufe 4: +32 Wochen
Stufe 5: +64 Wochen
Stufe 6: +128 Wochen

 

[BP]

Those players have a tendency to surprise me ... :shock:

(definition of a player - one who does the unexpected to a Referee's plan!)

Question: is that 14 weeks to gain Mental Skill 2; or, 22 weeks (2+6+14)?

 

[rust]

Question: is that 14 weeks to gain Mental Skill 2; or, 22 weeks (2+6+14)?

It is 14 weeks: 2 weeks to get Level 0, another 4 weeks to improve it to
Level 1, and yet another 8 weeks to improve it to Level 2.

Up to Level 2 learning is not more difficult than in the original version, but
the higher skill levels now take more time and more learning rolls.

 

[justacaveman]

I like your chart Rust. It's much simpler than what I was using, so I'm going to translate it and use it my game (Of course I'll claim to my players that I came up with it all on my own. :wink: )


Finding things to make my life easier is why I come to the forums (Well, that, and arguing.)

 

[rust]

I like your chart Rust. It's much simpler than what I was using, so I'm going to translate it and use it my game (Of course I'll claim to my players that I came up with it all on my own. :wink: )

You are most welcome to do so.