Size Q that is stuck in my crawl space

[dsfrankevo]

On one of the 7 pages of Battlefield Evolution forum topics Matt told us;

(excuse the paraphrasing) ...the miniatures are scaled to the vehicles and the Vehicles are scaled to fit the packaging...

I have a good deal of respect for Mongoose - they've certainly built a sizable empire in a relatively short period of time and from humble beginnings.....


BUT - and we all know there was a capitalized BUT coming .... does it strike anyone else as backward that a decision like packaging size should drive a much more important decision - like the size and compatiblity of the figures; which will have a DIRECT and lasting impact on the initial and continued success of a miniatures oriented product line?

After all, nobody will say "That B Evo game is great and I like the minis - but I just can't bring myself to shell out the cash because of those boxes"

I do expect more casual gamers will say - "That B Evo stuff looks cool, too bad the minis can't fight my SST bugs (or my IG - or my Crusader WWII or Foundry Swat guys ... etc...) I think I'll pass"

Am I the lone ponderer in the wilderness that thinks this was a case of the tail wagging the dog to the detriment of the dog - LMK if I am totally off base.

The larger implication is W/ SST Evo and other games on the horizon, will packaging drive more important decisions - or will efforts to maintain compatability be more in step w/ the accepted standards of mini sizing?

 

[roughneck GIR]

You strike a good point, but the miniatures, and even the vehicles are true 28mm scale, not like the heroic sizes everything else likes to be scaled in. Just wait and see the miniatures before jumping to conclusions. Heck my MI look really small next to an arachnid warrior. But who cares right? But oh well, it basically melts down to what you like or want, and so yeah.

Oh and SST evo will be 30mm scale, just like sst is right now.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Packaging plays a very important part in the marketing of all figures. mongoose have to balance a professional and good-looking package that won't cost a fortune to ship with the need to make good-looking figures.

You'll likely find that similar concerns effect boxed minis from most manafacturers.

 

[britneyfan97]

To expand on Lorcan Nagles point...

How many units can be fit onto a pallet without exceeding weight X, and making sure that enough product is moving out without having too many pallets exceeding the available warehouse space allocated... (espescially if they are just renting space in the US/AUS/etc).

It's a nasty little balancing act they have to perform to bring us the products we want. And the scale came down a bit to better the balance.
I for one, am glad not to have that type of responsibility as I much prefer hurting people and breaking their things for a living, as opposed to counting units and managing such logistics (and I've had to do that before).

 

[Mr Evil]

british humor my friend british humor.

basicly its all scaled to 1:65 ie true 28mm unlike scfi modern has real life examples to select the size of vehicles.

i think mat was just having a jolly, the vehicles would have been designed befor box size was devloped.

 

[britneyfan97]

Well then I rather deservedly sound like a total idiot...

 

[Martin]

The problem is with Mongoose choosing 1/65th scale or "TRUE" 28mm as opposed to "Heroic" 28mm it kind of restricts things for the gamer who wants to use other vehicles or figure units that are around now that Mongoose don't or wont make in the near future which kind of makes me want to avoid the games because of the restrictions of non compatability impossed.

Martin

 

[Martin]

Sorry should have also said if the product was designed around the packaging then I would have expected Mongoose to go for 10mm or 15mm or 20mm smaller product smaller box everyones a winner.

Martin

 

[Turtle]

And you assume that was the only thing that they based the size of the vehicles on?

Seriously, there's a lot of thought that goes into the size of any product. The size of the packaging is a very serious decision. It affects sales a great deal more than you think, packaging that's too big can eat into profits, stores can stock as many at the same time, etc...

 

[dsfrankevo]

And you assume that was the only thing that they based the size of the vehicles on?

Seriously, there's a lot of thought that goes into the size of any product....

I agree - Marketing concerns and packaging issues are items to be seriously considered - but they are not the most imortant variable in the equation.

Having some experience in this area, I know that for a product line to succeed, those items that will make or break the sales of a product...

like price point ....

and dare I use the "scale" word,...

must take precdence other considerations.


However Matt's direct post is as follows;

Forum: Battlefield Evolution Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:31 pm Subject: why are the figs so small?????????


The official reason for this scale of infantry?

A) We wanted the infantry to be in scale with the vehicles.

B) We wanted the vehicles to fit in the boxes

Now unless Matt tells us he was pulling our collective leg (and he may have been) - it looks pretty cut an dry to me.

Matt, any comment?

The problem is with Mongoose choosing 1/65th scale or "TRUE" 28mm as opposed to "Heroic" 28mm it kind of restricts things for the gamer who wants to use other vehicles or figure units that are around now that Mongoose don't or wont make in the near future which kind of makes me want to avoid the games because of the restrictions of non compatability impossed.

Well buddy it looks you and I are the Lone Rangers w/ this thought process (Don't ask MR.E about scale - he'll break out the slide rule and tell you how and why the OberFurhers cannot be questioned :lol: )

 

[Helstrom]

The point which I think dsfrankevo wanted to make is that, by going for 1/65 on the vehicles and realistically-proportioned 28mm foot-to-eye on the infantry, the BF:EVO range is effectively incompatible with most of the current (Ultra)Modern figures out there - like TAG, DDD, Black Scorpion, etc.

The thing is, I believe, that the current modern 28mm wargaming market is actually pretty small. It's in the domain of "serious" historical wargamers, and even there it is a small population compared to, say, American Civil War or WWII.

With BF:EVO, Mongoose has a product that could reach a very large gaming population indeed. Not as big to challenge giants like Warhammer and 40K of course, but think along the scale of Flames of War and you won't be far off. With a demographic that size, the fraction that already has existing collections of modern miniatures are not really all that much of an issue.

You might even theorise that the scale/proportion difference is intentional, to discourage people from buying significantly cheaper figures from other manufacturers :shock: Getting a comprehensive, consistently-scaled ultra-modern 28mm range together is one hell of a challenge these days, especially when you consider future weaponry like the Shadow or T99. Mongoose will offer all the stuff you need for BF:EVO in one scale, and from one source, but it won't mix well with stuff you may already have and/or could buy someplace else.

Of course this also means the BF:EVO stuff isn't going to sell very well to folks who want to bulk out their existing 28mm moderns collection, but again, compared to the scale on which BF:EVO has to hit in order to make itself profitable, that demographic is small enough to overlook.


EDIT: Aaaand, dsfrankevo just made that point again while I was typing

 

[Mr Evil]

lol

well if you look back i was the first to complain about scale of these minis.

but i have totaly warmed to it now, the scale works so well for gaming, i find it hard to see why others havnte done it befor.

sometimes following the crowd ist the best thing to do when the crowd are following a corperation hell bent on selling imagination.

i think the biggest fear i have is seeing the price tag on a box of 2 or 3 matchbox sized cars. and how that may scar people of.

that said you can do a 2k army painted and based in a day for around £125 wich is damn impressive.

 

[britneyfan97]

With BF:EVO, Mongoose has a product that could reach a very large gaming population indeed. Not as big to challenge giants like Warhammer and 40K of course, but think along the scale of Flames of War and you won't be far off.

We would have a very happy mob of mongooses on our hands if this thing goes as big as FOW.

- - yet another game I have a near complete army for, but have yet to ever play....

 

[Old Bear]

I can absolutely assure you all that I designed the box sizes long after the game scale was determined. :lol: The boxes have changed size at least 3 times as designing has progressed.

 

[dsfrankevo]

I can absolutely assure you all that I designed the box sizes long after the game scale was determined. :lol: The boxes have changed size at least 3 times as designing has progressed.

Obviously Matt's dry wit was mistaken for fact (by me at least) - who said the Brit's can't act?

Once again my faith is patched up and sent back into the fray!