Shipboard Life

[alex_greene]

The Beeb have put up a video article describing life aboard a Royal Navy vessel. Specifically, the new stealth sub HMS Astute.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11173266

Some of the declassified specifics:-

* Cabling and pipe work would stretch from Glasgow to Dundee
* First submarine to have an individual bunk for each crew member
* Manufactures its own oxygen from sea water as well as drinking water
* Crew of 98 are fed by five chefs who, on an average patrol, will serve up 18,000 sausages and 4,200 Weetabix for breakfast
* Faster under the water than it is on the surface, capable of speeds in excess of 20 knots - although its top speed is classified

The interesting thing, however, is the fact that this thing doesn't need refuelling. Using current technology, this thing can go without a refuel for upward of thirty years.

A future ship of the stars having to refuel its power plant once every fourteen days sounds somewhat like a backward step by comparison.

Anyways, there you have it. Presented to you so you can apply some of the principles towards life on board a Traveller starship, or indeed aboard a TL 8 military submarine from the Military Vehicles supplement.

 

[Gentleman John]

The interesting thing, however, is the fact that this thing doesn't need refuelling. Using current technology, this thing can go without a refuel for upward of thirty years.

A future ship of the stars having to refuel its power plant once every fourteen days sounds somewhat like a backward step by comparison.

A couple of points to consider regarding the powerplants. First of all, a nuclear submarine uses a nuclear fission reaction, while a Traveller starship uses a fusion plant. In one the fuel is solid, while in the other the fuel is liquid. Different energy densities.

Secondly, Astute can run for up to thirty years. However, the core only contains so much energy, so that 30 years is actually 30 years at an average power output that is much less than its maximum.

Not a step backwards, but more comparing apples with oranges.

The BBC article is interesting, but the one thing it doesn't mention is that a submarine in service has a very particular smell to it. There is nothing like the smell left behind by 100 submariners who have been cooped up in a small metal box for three months ...

It also doesn't mention the most important part of the submarine - the beer locker!

 

[alex_greene]

The interesting thing, however, is the fact that this thing doesn't need refuelling. Using current technology, this thing can go without a refuel for upward of thirty years.

A future ship of the stars having to refuel its power plant once every fourteen days sounds somewhat like a backward step by comparison.

A couple of points to consider regarding the powerplants. First of all, a nuclear submarine uses a nuclear fission reaction, while a Traveller starship uses a fusion plant. In one the fuel is solid, while in the other the fuel is liquid. Different energy densities.

I know. Fusion's energy density is second to antimatter in its efficiency. A core lifespan of 200 years before refuelling should probably be more realistic in the case of even the simplest fusion plants.

The BBC article is interesting, but the one thing it doesn't mention is that a submarine in service has a very particular smell to it. There is nothing like the smell left behind by 100 submariners who have been cooped up in a small metal box for three months ...

Traveller's Type S Scout ships, IIRC, have this same problem. All that flatulence and BO, and nowhere for it to go.

It also doesn't mention the most important part of the submarine - the beer locker!

I don't recall stats for the beer locker appearing in any edition of High Guard either.

 

[Gentleman John]

Nope. Taking a look through my textbooks, the most energetic fusion reaction going (deuterium and helium-3 making helium-4) will release 14.7 MeV per reaction. A standard uranium-235 fission reaction will release 169 MeV per reaction. So, uranium-235 releases 11 times more energy.

Now, assuming you have a fuel supply that is 100% pure uranium or pure liquid hydrogen, 1 mole (ie, 6 x 10e23 atoms of a substance) of uranium is 12.3 cc, while 1 mole of liquid hydrogen is 28.6 cc. So, the energy you can get per cc of each substance works out at 26 times more for uranium-235 than liquid hydrogen.

The exact method of fusion used in the Traveller universe has never been established. However, if any form of magnetic containment or energy input is required to initiate the fusion reaction is required, then you move the balance more in the favour of uranium where no active containment (albeit lots of passive containment) or initiating energy is required.

The advantages of fusion over fission in Traveller are that fuel is relatively plentiful (hydrogen and deuterium can be extracted from water) and that a fusion reaction can be concocted that will have little or no stray neutrons. Gamma is a different problem, however.

Also, I have no idea how much energy a starship will require to keep a standard load going, but refuelling only every two weeks is bloomin' marvellous compared to most (ie, non-nuclear) military vessels.

Not to detract from the rest of your post, though.

The BBC article is interesting, but the one thing it doesn't mention is that a submarine in service has a very particular smell to it. There is nothing like the smell left behind by 100 submariners who have been cooped up in a small metal box for three months ...

Traveller's Type S Scout ships, IIRC, have this same problem. All that flatulence and BO, and nowhere for it to go.

Seem to recall it turning up in the original Traders and Gunboats. NEver buy a Type S without replacing the air filters.

It also doesn't mention the most important part of the submarine - the beer locker!

I don't recall stats for the beer locker appearing in any edition of High Guard either.

Given the importance of beer to the RN, I'd call it a Vault (as per HG) and leave it at that

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

As someone who served on a US nuclear powered submarine for four years, I can certainly attest to the smell. The interesting thing is that you don't really notice it when you are underway. It is after you come back into port that you notice it. My wife used to make me change clothes in the garage before she would let me in the house. My clothes took 2-3 washings to get MOST of the smell out.

Regarding the 30 years of fuel... You also need to consider the type of propulsion system. A submarine uses a nuclear reactor to make steam to spin a propeller in the water. A spaceship needs to use a fusion reactor to create an artifical gravity field to propel the ship at multiple gravities. OR if you are using a Reaction Drive, you have to accelerate hydrogen plasma to very high speeds (a decent fraction of the speed of light) to create your thrust. That reaction mass is lost, while on a submarine there is no reaction mass.

Fusion power should be more efficient than Fission power when it is properly developed.

Traveller has a broken Power Plant fuel design; but that is another issue.

BTW, on my submarine EVERYONE had their own bunk, so I don't know why you limeys ( ) haven't been able to build a submarine before this that didn't require people to "hotrack".

Just to dispel any dirty minded people out there. When two people had to share a bunk, they were on different duty shifts, so one was sleeping when the other was on watch. They did not sleep together...

 

[AndrewW]

Just to dispel any dirty minded people out there. When two people had to share a bunk, they were on different duty shifts, so one was sleeping when the other was on watch. They did not sleep together...

Or three as the case may be.

 

[BP]

... The interesting thing is that you don't really notice it when you are underway...

Smell can be like hearing in that way - the brain just filters out the 'background'.

I suspect almost everywhere 'smells' to some degree or other. As a child, we 'smelled home' when returning from out of town trips. Normally we were completely unaware of the smell. Thus, we thought everybody's town had their own familiar odor...

I might mention, we lived in a refinery town!

Traveller setting might have really good filtering, as I presume modern subs do, but they would still probably have their own distinctive smells. Especially cargo ships.

For my players, all starports and worlds have their own distinctly described smells. Try for RP that engages as many senses as possible (have even thought of bringing various scented sprays and sealed rotten food containers to games - but, fortunately for my players, I haven't - yet!).

 

[Gentleman John]

As someone who served on a US nuclear powered submarine for four years, I can certainly attest to the smell. The interesting thing is that you don't really notice it when you are underway. It is after you come back into port that you notice it. My wife used to make me change clothes in the garage before she would let me in the house. My clothes took 2-3 washings to get MOST of the smell out.

Indeed. Every time I go on board, I need a shower to get the smell off my skin - never mind my clothes. And I only go on board to service the back-aft equipment! My wife always knows when I've been onboard.

Fusion power should be more efficient than Fission power when it is properly developed.

In terms of energy out for energy in - definitely. However, I believe fusion power is still 10 years away, and has been for fifty years

BTW, on my submarine EVERYONE had their own bunk, so I don't know why you limeys ( ) haven't been able to build a submarine before this that didn't require people to "hotrack".

The bomber-queens have had their own bunks since the Vanguard class (our SSBN) was commissioned in the 90s. The SSNs have needed hotbunking up till Astute. This has been one of the sources of dispute between the crews for the different classes. You should hear the arguments between the ex-mateys at our place.

Just to dispel any dirty minded people out there. When two people had to share a bunk, they were on different duty shifts, so one was sleeping when the other was on watch. They did not sleep together...

Just don't ask about the golden rivet ...