shipboard combat

[cerebrolator]

I'm new to Mongoose Traveller and haven't really played any Traveller since high school back in the early 80s (yes, I'm old). I've got the feeling from reading the core rulebook that shipboard combat typically avoids guns due to possible damage to the ship caused by stray shots. I can't find anything in the rules to tell me how to determine if something is damaged by a stray shot or what the effects would be. Am I missing something? If it isn't in the books, has anyone made up any rules?

 

[BP]

Welcome - I think you will find yourself in good company here (there was a thread some time back with folks spouting their relative ages and Traveller experience)!

As to your question, I seem to recall reading something to that effect, as well. In my TU, since ships are designed to be safe, they have numerous redundancies and can take a bit of a licking (besides weapons damage, one could expect equivalent damage from less violent activities), and their hulls are more substantial than say an airliners. So firefights, which are inherently dangerous anyways, aren't really less likely aboard a spacecraft.

I would handle damage per Core pg 143 and pg 151 - adjusting for the fact that really only 1 hit level is appropriate for most personal weaponts. Since systems are unlikely to be used during combat, multiple stray or intentional hits would just amount to 1 hit.

 

[cerebrolator]

BP, thanks for the input. Perhaps I'll have a second roll on a stray shot and have it hit a system if they fail against the original target number or maybe I'll only make it hit on a critical failure.

I'd love more input as to what others do in this situation.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I've had only gun fight on a ship so far since picking up MGT. It was part of a preplanned plot to have the bridge shot up and need repairs in route. I can't recall the details but I think I had a couple systems I wanted to have disabled so those were the first ones struck by errant shots (players need not know that this was predetermined). After these systems were taken out, I did one roll to determine if the shot hit any bridge systems. I believe I just used 8 or better to hit (with no die mods) something vital and anything less was a shot that missed any important systems) If a bridge system was hit, I think I rolled one die assigning bridge systems to different #s like 1 = Comms, 2 = sensors, 3 = navigation, 4 = computer, 5 = helm control, 6 = power.

I did something like 1 hit could be repaired to full capacity with spare parts. 2 hits would require a harder roll and even then, the system would not have 100% functionality. 3 hits and the system could not be brought back to life.

The players came up with an interesting solution for the shot to heck comm console. They took a medium range portable comm system and wired it into the antenna array to boost it's capability.

 

[cerebrolator]

Sounds very fun. I like the way the players jury-rigged a solution!

 

[Fovean]

FWIW one of the old CT Supplements (Fighting Ships or Traders & Gunboats) stated something like 1000 points of personal weapon damage to punch a hole in a bulkhead that a man could fit thru, and 100 points for non-bulkhead partitions. Please don't quote me, I don't have it in front of me. Anyway, if you have deckplans that delineate sealed bulkhead areas from simple partitioned areas (kind of like load-bearing walls vs non-load-bearing walls) that could be an indicator of how much firepower is necessary to cause a breach, or perhaps damage systems mounted in said bulkheads or non-bulkheads.

But regarding control systems, I've been trying this:

If a target is near a control system, for every 3 missed shots GM rolls 1D6 - on 5 the round hits something important (but doesn't actually do anything but tense up the players), on 6 the stray round actually does damage. For non-bulkhead areas like corridors of staterooms, 4+ stresses the players (steam erupts, or sparks or smoke), 5 or 6 causes real damage - but in these areas it's usually computer access, doorlocks, etc.

If damage is done, the system can't be accessed from that location until repaired. Ships IMTU have back-ups so another station could take over via relay. Additional hits to the same location make repairs harder, but this is only a control surface, the actual systems still work (though without input they're probably NOT doing what the players want....

Seems to be working so far - it's easy so I can keep up with the additional rolls (or override them by fiat) and it adds some tension to an already tense situation.

 

[BP]

That sounds like a pretty good system Forean - only taking 1 in 3 misses and a small chance for an actually damaging hit.

Haven't played this yet, but I have thought of using the effect of a shot to indicate whether any nearby stuff was hit. I had planed on just winging this sort of thing myself. But for more generic rules, here's off the top of my head:

Average Failure could indicate hitting something nearby that could be damaged - with exceptional failure indicating actual damage and possibly collatoral damage (fire, gas leak, toxic fumes, explosion). Unfortunately, this adds an extra die roll, something I am opposed to - so using the effect value instead, I'm thinking something along the lines of:

• -2 = superficial damage (sparks, discolorations, dents)
  -3 = erratic operation (door opens, comm channel opens, power flickers...)
  -4 = non-functional (requires minor repair, but no parts)
  -5 = requires parts (like normal repairs)
  -6 and less = requires parts and collatoral damage roll

Some method of accounting for the difference between hitting tech with a stick versus a FGMP might be useful - maybe just using the die numbers and a hit criticality table. Or, to avoid more table bloat, I was also thinking this might only matter on a -5 or less, in which case the die (rounded up) divided by 10 would equal the tonnage of spare parts (so 1d6 or less would result in 0.1 tons, while 16d6 would result in 1.6 tons of damage). If one does not want to exceed 1 ton of damage, then anything over 1.0 could indicate collatoral damage needs to be rolled as well.

Commulative damage could be tracked and portion of overal system tonnage used to calculate if a system were destroyed or the like, but I would think this is overkill (pun intended).

Collatoral damage would be a special table (probably d66 style), but I haven't thought that far ahead (the things mentioned above being just a start).

 

[Golan2072]

IMTU, most ships are built in such a way that their essential systems are rugged and resistant to damage. That means that small arms rarely cause any serious damage to starships; but heavier weapons are more dangerous to use onboard.

For the sake of collateral damage, I divide weapons into three groups - Small Arms (including hand-held lasers), Explosive Weapons (grenades and rockets) and Heavy Weapons (F/PGMP's).

Small Arms are not powerful enough to penetrate any of a ship's essential systems. While they could harm various surface features (such as consoles, keypads, controls, lockers, locks and so on), they cause only very focused damage, meaning that they'll have to hit a feature directly in order to damage it; as most of the ship's internal surface is just walls and paneling, this would be rare.

In game terms, if a Small Arm misses with an Effect of -4 or worse, it hits something superficial (e.g. console or keypad) and damages it. Repairing this kind of damage is either a Mechanic, Intelligence, 1-6 minutes, Routine (+2) check or an Engineer (Electronics), Intelligence, 1-6 minutes, Routine (+2) check (Referee's choice). The repairs require some spare parts from the ship's locker; assume that they are re-stocked in each Ship Maintenance and covered by the Maintenance cost.

Explosives cause area damage and are more potent than small-arms. In game terms, Explosive weapons ALWAYS cause superficial area damage, EVEN IF THEY HIT THEIR TARGET (unless they hit with an Effect of +6 or better, that is, in which case no damage is done). Repairing this kind of damage requires both a Mechanic, Intelligence, 10-60 minutes, Routine (+2) check and an Engineer (Electronics), Intelligence, 10-60 minutes, Routine (+2) check. The repairs require some spare parts from the ship's locker; assume that they are re-stocked in each Ship Maintenance and covered by the Maintenance cost.

Furthermore, if an Explosive weapon misses with an Effect of -6 or worse, and the ship has Armour 1 or less, it causes a Ship Hit as appropriate for the combat location - an explosion on the bridge with an Effect of -6 or worse, for example, disables the bridge as if it was hit twice in ship combat; an explosion in the engineering section with an Effect of -6 or worse causes one Ship Hit to either the Maneuver Drive, Jump Drive or Power Plant (Referee's choice). Ships with Armour 2 or better are immune to such damage.

Heavy Weapons (i.e. F/PGMP's) are VERY dangerous to use on ships as they have SERIOUS firepower. In game terms, Heavy Weapons ALWAYS cause superficial area damage, EVEN IF THEY HIT THEIR TARGET (unless they hit with an Effect of +6 or better, that is, in which case no damage is done). Repairing this kind of damage requires both a Mechanic, Intelligence, 10-60 minutes, Routine (+2) check and an Engineer (Electronics), Intelligence, 10-60 minutes, Routine (+2) check. The repairs require some spare parts from the ship's locker; assume that they are re-stocked in each Ship Maintenance and covered by the Maintenance cost.

Furthermore, if a Heavy Weapon misses with an Effect of -5 or worse, and the ship has Armour 7 or less, it causes a Ship Hit as appropriate for the combat location - a plasma blast on the bridge with an Effect of -4 or worse, for example, disables the bridge as if it was hit twice in ship combat; a plasma blast in the engineering section with an Effect of -4 or worse causes one Ship Hit to either the Maneuver Drive, Jump Drive or Power Plant (Referee's choice). Ships with Armour 8 or better are immune to such damage.

 

[cerebrolator]

These are all great ideas! I like the idea of having the hit based on the effect and I also like have the amount of damage done being based on the type of weapon being used. Superficial damage that simply provides tension and annoyance for the characters is great too. I'll certainly be using that.

 

[BP]

I like Golan2072's writeup in that it deals with the nature and damage scale of the various weapons in more detail - though it also seems a bit more involved during RP.

Larger weapons causing damage regardless of hits works (as per the Serious Firepower inset on pg 102), unless the weapon hit, say a robot or heavily armoured suit. I had thought about having damage that was not absorbed by a target automatically be treated as a miss - but, so far, I haven't thought of a way, in my system, that doesn't require more accounting or die rolling.

Golan2072's system lacks collatoral damage as I mentioned above (damage to 'environment', players and other systems as a side effect).

I'm looking for RP goodness - not realism so much as immersive drama - with acceptable KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) concessions. Basically - playable, yet detailed.

So besides degreees of damage from misses/near misses, we have - overpenetration (overkill?); blast; and, collatoral (secondary) damage, as well... (any others?)

 

[FreeTrav]

Golan, if you're willing, I'd like to see an elaboration of your idea - it would be a good fit for a Doing It My Way article in Freelance Traveller.

 

[Golan2072]

Golan, if you're willing, I'd like to see an elaboration of your idea - it would be a good fit for a Doing It My Way article in Freelance Traveller.

I'll try to do so once I will have some free time at my hands

 

[Fovean]

Good points re: Explosives and Heavy Weapons, I've only been dealing with small arms aboard ships.

Time to come up with a new scenario for the players...

 

[rinku]

Re: Explosions

Keep in mind that an explosion in a sealed volume like a ship is going to have nastier effects than inside a normal building, due to there not being anywhere for the pressure wave to escape to. (Which does make me wonder about the standard HE snub pistol...)

Don't underrate the effects on "superficial" damage done to control areas from small arms, either.

Pick up a handgun and put one round through your computer monitor.

Now try to reply to this message

(the point being - plenty of roleplay-worthy trouble can ensue from a "trivial" amount of damage at the right time and place. It might take a hour or two to repair the damage... during which time the sensors aren't being manned and the *other* pirate ship turns up...)