Ship Design Philosophy

[AnotherDilbert]

In HG beta a good sensor will see 300 000 km, but over that stealthed ships can easily be missed. Even if your sensors see ships at distance, they only see that something is there, not what.

Pirates, spies, and enemy special ops can hide quite close to your world. Small raider squadrons can sneak up to you, and you will basically detect them when they are in range to launch missiles.

The countermeasure is to have lots of sensors out there. Good sensor craft are surprisingly expensive. Drones lack skill compared to good sophont operators.

If you have fighters anyway, it is an obvious idea to use them as cheap sensor platforms. Just replace the main weapon with a better sensor, a good use of modules.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Main refuelling sources, such as gas giants and worlds with water, you can probably cover with a destroyer or even cruiser to deny refuelling to unauthorised vessels. But a single ship will not see clearly out to the 100d limit.

You need cheap, mobile sensors to cover the other 99.99% of the system.

Any potential enemy can easily infiltrate stealthed spy ships into your systems and keep track of your unstealthed fleets. Once a spy ship has landed on a moon, asteroid, or other space debris it will be very difficult to spot.

 

[Condottiere]

There's probably no size fits all solution for this.

I tend to think there's not only physical exhaustion, but psychological fatigue that has to be calculated for, hence the need for a comfortably sized EWACS craft, and a minimum crew of four for long duration patrols.

Of course, I'm biased towards designing vessels that fits in with my take on the Solomani Navy, and have no issue with modular fighters, or modular vessels of any purpose or size, which I'll return to, once I understand the new design rules.

EWACS are not the same as Spacetime Patrol Craft.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I came up with shorter fighter sweeps (days?) or longer drone patrols.

For spying on the enemy I came up with a small spacecraft camouflaged as an asteroid for long term missions, with a crew of 8.

Spy Rock:

TL 15          Hull  64                                   66,3          Sensor DM    +6
                   Desired    ∆TL    Rat    #    dTon    Cost    Power    HardP    Crew
Hull                                              120              24       1    
Config    Planetoid     6             6            24      0            
Hull strength Reinforce 3             3                        
Rad Shielding           1             1                    3            
EM Shielding            1             1             2      5            
Stealth    Stealth      1             1                   12            
Repair Drones           1             1             1      0            
                                        
ManœuvreD  Budget       1    -0       1     1       1      2       16                0
PowerP     High Technology    3             1       2      3       39                0
    Emergency Power     1                   1       0      0            
                                        
Fuel, Power             4            22     1       1                

Bridge                  1                   1      10      1            
Comp           m/15     3            15     1              2            
Backup Comp    m/10 fib 2            10     1              0            
                                        
Sensors    Advanced     9             4     1       5      5        6        
Array    None                                    
Extension Net           9             1     1       1      1            
Signal Processing  Enhanced           2     1       2      8        2        
                                        
Staterooms           100%             8     8      32      4            
Common Areas          25%           25%     1       8      1            
Library                 1                   1       4      4            
Medical Bay  5% of crew 1                   1       4      2            
Armoury                 1                   1       1      0            
Low Berths              4             4     1       2      0        1        
Cargo                                              16                
Collapsible Tanks      16                           0                

Pop-up Turret                                        
Pulse Laser  Very Advanced    2    TL11     1       2      8       18       1    
                                        
                                        
                                        
Software                                                   5            
Evade/3                    25                              3            
Virtual Crew/0              5                              1            
                                        
Sensor AI                                                  0            
Engineer AI                                                0            
   
   
   
Crew                 8                            
    Command          1                            
    Bridge           5                            
        Pilot              1                        
        Astrogator         0                        
        Sensor & EW        4                        
    Engineer         1                            
        Engineer           0                        
        Maintenance        0,12                        
    Service          1                            
        Admin              0,06                        
        Medic              0,0505                        
        Steward            0                        
    Gunner                                
    Flight                                
    Troops           0

The 500 dT placement and resupply tender became distressingly expensive (~MCr800), but can be used with many Spy Rocks.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm sure you'll find employment with Solomani Security's Space Surveillance Section.

 

[Condottiere]

Starships: Liners

Accommodations
Harmony of the Seas has 2,747 staterooms, with a wide variety of types, to accommodate (at double occupancy) 5,479 guests[20] ranging from small interior rooms through larger rooms to suites, some of which are fitted with wall-mounted 80-inch screens, covering nearly the floor to ceiling,[21] that show the ship's environment as if through a window, named 'virtual balconies'. These screens were first fitted on the Quantum class of cruise ships.[22] A full 43 categories of stateroom types are offered, starting at a size of 180 square feet; several types of suites are available, including the new Royal Class.[23]

Amenities
The ship is divided into seven neighborhoods, including Central Park and Boardwalk, like its Oasis class sisters.[24] Amenities include:[25]

Vitality Spa and a fitness center
Splashaway Bay and H2O Zone water park
Three water slides called Perfect Storm as a group
Ten story high "Ultimate Abyss", a spiraling dry slide with two cylinders.[26]
23 swimming pools; also whirlpools and two Flow Rider surf simulators[27]
Casino (Casino Royale)
3D Movie theatre
Puzzle Break: Escape the Rubicon; a high-tech live room escape game, for up to 12 players at a time, designed by Seattle-based Puzzle Break, in partnership with the Hollywood set design company, ShowFX.[28]
20 dining venues[29]
The first double-storey Wonderland restaurant[30]
11,252 works of art[31]
Studio B Ice Rink
The Aqua Theatre for diving shows and “3D flying” shows with acrobats.
The Bionic Bar where drinks will be made solely by two robotic arms.[32]
1400 seat Royal Theatre for Broadway-style shows such as Grease (musical), (the first to be offered)[33]
Over 10,000 species of plants (including 50 trees) in Central Park[34]
DreamWorks Experience with characters from Shrek, Kung Fu Panda, etc.
Two rock climbing walls
Full size basketball court[35]
Zip line
Adventure Ocean programs for children and youth; also Royal Babies and Royal Tots programs[36]
"Voom" high-speed Internet
Optional RFID enabled wristbands (WOWbands) which will provide the same functions as the SeaPass cards.[37]


Tonnage: 226,963 GT[2]
Length: 362.12 metres (1,188.1 ft)[2]
Beam:
66 metres (217 ft) (max)[7]
47.42 metres (155.6 ft) (waterline)[2]
Height: 70m (210 feet)
Draught: 9.322 metres (30.58 ft) (waterline)[2]
Depth: 22.6 metres (74 ft) [8]
Decks: 18; 16 passenger decks
Installed power:
2 × Wärtsilä 16V46[2] (2 × 18,480 kW)
4 × Wärtsilä 12V46[2] (2 × 13,860 kW)
2 × MTU 16V4000[2]
Propulsion:
diesel-electric
3 × ABB Azipod thrusters[2] (3 × 20.5 MW)
4 × Wärtsilä CT 3500 bow thrusters[2] (4 × 5.5 MW)
Capacity: 5,479 at double occupancy; 6,410 total capacity[9]
Crew: 2,100[10]

 

[AnotherDilbert]

227 000 GT ≈ 54000 dT.

2750 staterooms + 2100 crew, that is a lot of "stewards".

Smallest staroom 180 sqft ≈ 17 m2 => 3,6 dT.

18 decks à 300 m * 50 m * 3 m ≈ 58 000 dT.

If we say 50 000 dT, squeeze the crew into 4 dT each that leaves 41 600 dT for passengers, with 2750 staterooms that is 15 dT / stateroom. Traveller ships are quite cramped in comparison.

The ticket prices on this ship designed as a starship would be interesting...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

In MgT2 I can make a ship at 75 000 dT with J-2, M-2.
Crew 2070 staterooms
Passengers: 2000 High Stateroom (6 dT), 750 Luxury Stateroom (10 dT), additional 100% Common Areas.
Lifeboats: 2 Escape Capsules per stateroom.
Cost ~GCr19.


Operating cost, per year:
Mortgage yearly: 19000 / 240 * 12 = MCr 950
Maintenance year: 19000 * 0,1% = MCr 19
Life Support year: ( 4000 * Cr2000 + 750 * Cr5000 ) * 12 = MCr 141
Salaries: ( 2100 * Cr2000 ) * 12 * 200% = MCr 101 (assume 200% crew, since they need vacations, sick leave, ...)
Fuel, year: 35 jump * 15000 dT * Cr 500 = MCr 263

Total per year: 950 + 19 + 141 + 101 + 263 ≈ MCr 1500 / year.

We have made 35 jumps with 2750 staterooms or 96000 transports per year.

Total cost ~Cr16000 / stateroom / jump.

Minimum ticket price perhaps kCr25 for the smallest staterooms. Not as bad as I thought...

 

[wbnc]

There's probably no size fits all solution for this.

I tend to think there's not only physical exhaustion, but psychological fatigue that has to be calculated for, hence the need for a comfortably sized EWACS craft, and a minimum crew of four for long duration patrols.

Of course, I'm biased towards designing vessels that fits in with my take on the Solomani Navy, and have no issue with modular fighters, or modular vessels of any purpose or size, which I'll return to, once I understand the new design rules.

EWACS are not the same as Spacetime Patrol Craft.

Nope, no one size fits all.....Shipbuilders and design teams would go mad trying to find that mythical blend of capabilities...

One solution to the crew fatigue problem might be virtual crews...The human crew handles any decisions, or emergencies, that pop-up. While virtual pilots handle the long dull hours of cruising around a system. wedging a stateroom and a couple of extra computers to run the virtual crew might be a good way to extend a flight crews time on station.

In MgT2 I can make a ship at 75 000 dT with J-2, M-2.
Crew 2070 staterooms
Passengers: 2000 High Stateroom (6 dT), 750 Luxury Stateroom (10 dT), additional 100% Common Areas.
Lifeboats: 2 Escape Capsules per stateroom.
Cost ~GCr19.


Operating cost, per year:
Mortgage yearly: 19000 / 240 * 12 = MCr 950
Maintenance year: 19000 * 0,1% = MCr 19
Life Support year: ( 4000 * Cr2000 + 750 * Cr5000 ) * 12 = MCr 141
Salaries: ( 2100 * Cr2000 ) * 12 * 200% = MCr 101 (assume 200% crew, since they need vacations, sick leave, ...)
Fuel, year: 35 jump * 15000 dT * Cr 500 = MCr 263

Total per year: 950 + 19 + 141 + 101 + 263 ≈ MCr 1500 / year.

We have made 35 jumps with 2750 staterooms or 96000 transports per year.

Total cost ~Cr16000 / stateroom / jump.

Minimum ticket price perhaps kCr25 for the smallest staterooms. Not as bad as I thought...

25K for a week long stay in a Luxury resort with all the extras....yeah that's not bad at all. If you were operating ou of a subsector capital you would have a large enough population with the credits to burn.

 

[Condottiere]

Recent and not so recent revelations on the most expensive weapons programme in history, tends to make me cynical on the multirole, as opposed to the multipurpose, issue.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Recent and not so recent revelations on the most expensive weapons programme in history, tends to make me cynical on the multirole, as opposed to the multipurpose, issue.

Ah - the F-35 - had to Google that Even I have heard it has software problems...

OK, considering humanity has been developing software for decades, how come we don't realise that complex computer systems aren't built from scratch? You start with a simple system and then work on it until you have a working, complex system.

 

[Condottiere]

It's more than that.

I'm all for commonality, and the F-35 is based on that; but, it's actually three different fighters, despite corporate spin and Pentagon fantasies. And you'd have been better off in developing the naval version first, then building the Air Force knock off variant. The SVOTL should have been a completely different aircraft.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Micro (Aerospace) Carrier

I came across this word recently, and I had to ask myself if this was a term I ever had been aware of.

Despite the obvious connection, it's not an escort carrier, though currently none exist. In Traveller terms, a light carrier would be using something like a light cruiser hull range in tonnage.

The Solomani had sub ten kay carriers tagged pocket with a respectable complement of forty to fifty fighters, and they were expected to keep up with the primary fleet units, since apparently what should have been an organic capability was outsourced, which differentiates them from escort, since escort carriers would be built to commercial standards, and be earmarked for trade or convoy protection.

Realistically, carriers might not be carrying state of the art fighters, but neither would they be packed with ten tonners either, since they'd still have to fight off raiders; ad hoc ones would be carrying around ten craft, later designs would have twenty to thirty, since you assume that the conflict came as a surprise, and the need to protect your shipping from fast raiders as well, and afterwards, the leisure to launch more appropriate vessels only presents itself.

You still have the adjective mini.

So micro tends to imply a purpose built vessel with around five fighters, rounding off to maybe fifteen craft of all types.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Recent and not so recent revelations on the most expensive weapons programme in history, tends to make me cynical on the multirole, as opposed to the multipurpose, issue.

Multirole aircraft can be made with reasonable performance to a reasonable cost:

Saab JAS-39 Gripen


The F-35 is a much more ambitious program. Developing new technology that pushes the envelope is difficult to schedule or cost beforehand.

Whether the F-35 is necessary or a well managed project is a different question entirely.

 

[wbnc]

Recent and not so recent revelations on the most expensive weapons programme in history, tends to make me cynical on the multirole, as opposed to the multipurpose, issue.

Multirole aircraft can be made with reasonable performance to a reasonable cost:

Saab JAS-39 Gripen


The F-35 is a much more ambitious program. Developing new technology that pushes the envelope is difficult to schedule or cost beforehand.

Whether the F-35 is necessary or a well managed project is a different question entirely.

The P47 and the P-40 were two historical craft that were very well rounded and could handle a variety of assignments. They had short careers due to the progress of technology. The PBY was a good example of a multi-role aircraft that served patrol, search and rescue, and anti-submarine duties. depending on how it was equipped and armed.

 

[Condottiere]

I'd rather have a plane that's optimized for one role, and then let it evolve and/or adapt into another/others.

In Traveller, the irony is that a ground based space fighter would have to be tougher, than a real life original carrier version that gets adopted by the Air Force.

I like the Gripen, and I think SAAB does great designs, but saleswise it's a dead duck; the Rafale has a protected home market, the British were willing to nurture Tiffy up to a point, and it may be a moot point whether it's better that the F-35, because that's being promoted as the standard NATO fighter. The Japanese may be able to build a stealth fighter, if they're willing to pay to evolve research and development from whatever they managed to steal from Lockheed Martin, and the Chinese, once they get the material technology right.

The Russian Sukhoi 27 and MiG 29 families are very sexy and are impressive performance wise, but unlike previous Russian fighters, may require almost as much care to maintain as Western designs.

I prefer to analogue Traveller designs with real life examples, since it makes it easier to evaluate their performance.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Hulls and Explosive Compression

As I like to keep pointing out, I'm not an engineer.

The following is a video showing a technique that dampens the effects of explosions in enclosed spaces like tunnels, or in our case, corridors and gangways, possibly engineering spaces and cargo holds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUMUvykAgDg

If I understand it correctly, the moment an explosion is detected, a mist is immediately released, which I think could be similar to a fire sprinkler system. Most weapon systems would have to first penetrate the armour before they can explode within a spaceship, so a substantial part of that force could be vented in the direction they entered. Meson guns explode within the hull, without needing to breach the armour.

We can speculate if this fire sprinkler system can help contain the damage from explosions in the spaceship.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Hulls and Balancing the Scales

One interesting thing I found out in the recent submarine procurement scramble, is that you can't simply rip out the nuclear heart of a submarine, and replace it with a conventional propulsion.

Apparently, submarines need to be carefully balanced, and replacing a major component requires careful recalculations.

Considering the fact that most spaceships won't need to consider the tyranny of dirtside gravity, at medium and high accelerations, balancing out the weights of the entire fuselage may again become relevant.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Carriers and Armoured Flight Deck

Traveller designs don't make provision for this feature, but you redesignate them as armoured carriers, since basically you can plate the entire hulls with armour.

This makes carriers hard to damage, and tends to prevent a lucky shot mission killing them, though at the expense of strikecraft capacity.

 

[Condottiere]

Starships: Engineering and Jump Drives

An interesting aspect is the actual limitations as to how far you can push any given factor of the jump drive.

If you want to abuse the system, you could say it's the factor, plus forty nine percent of a parsec.

Dipping back to GURPS, since jump zero is a quarter of a parsec, it would be factor plus twenty five percent.

A less exploitative limitation would be jump factor plus ten percent per jump factor.