Ship Brain

[MasterGwydion]

Just a question. Does a standard Ship's Computer already count as fully integrated with the ship, using the definition under ship brain on pg 102 of the RH? In the section on Ship's Brain Interface. So, installing Self-Aware Interface Software on a Ship's Computer would allow the ship to fly itself using the Pilot Skill? I am thinking like Lucy in Killjoys.

 

[Geir]

As written, the Ship's Brain needs the Ship's Brain Interface installed per ton, preferably the full haptics as well. The Ship's Computer can run Virtual Crew or Expert and Expert skill packages, but since Pilot is a DEX-based skill (except, maybe for capital ships), it's not clear that the ship could fly itself using anything other than Virtual Crew.

 

[MasterGwydion]

As written, the Ship's Brain needs the Ship's Brain Interface installed per ton, preferably the full haptics as well. The Ship's Computer can run Virtual Crew or Expert and Expert skill packages, but since Pilot is a DEX-based skill (except, maybe for capital ships), it's not clear that the ship could fly itself using anything other than Virtual Crew.

But, if the Ship's Computer is not connected to everything, how does it control doors, talk with sophonts on the intercom, allow for the operation of the drives from consoles, etc. All of this is through the Ship's Computer. Correct? It seems to Me that the Ship's Computer is already connected in this way. You only need an interface if you are not using a ship's computer. If you load the Digital Friend Software on your Ship's Computer, is the computer no longer connected to the ship? Why can't you simply add the Pilot Skill package to the Ship's Computer with a Self-Aware Interface?

 

[Arkathan]

But, if the Ship's Computer is not connected to everything, how does it control doors, talk with sophonts on the intercom, allow for the operation of the drives from consoles, etc. All of this is through the Ship's Computer. Correct? It seems to Me that the Ship's Computer is already connected in this way. You only need an interface if you are not using a ship's computer. If you load the Digital Friend Software on your Ship's Computer, is the computer no longer connected to the ship? Why can't you simply add the Pilot Skill package to the Ship's Computer with a Self-Aware Interface?

One is not related to the other.
The computer is distributed throughout the hull, which is why it no longer takes up space during ship design. It IS connected to every system, because it IS those systems.
The Ship's Brain is a separate... entity. It requires a connection to each node of the computer/control consoles in order to allow it the same access to ship's systems.
In order to function in a role, the Brain needs an appropriate skill package.

I have to disagree with Geir, as RH page 102 states that the Brain has a Dex = TL. Either virtual crew and Expert Pilot on the computer OR Give the Brain pilot skill, and it can pilot with its TL as Dex, meaning in most cases, it will be at least a DM+1 (TL12+).

So, the Brain costs more to get the same access(or better with Haptics) wired throughout the ship. Bonus, even a Traveller can do it outside a shipyard. (I would roll secretly for each major system and not say anything about failures unless they RP significant testing)

 

[MasterGwydion]

One is not related to the other.
The computer is distributed throughout the hull, which is why it no longer takes up space during ship design. It IS connected to every system, because it IS those systems.
The Ship's Brain is a separate... entity. It requires a connection to each node of the computer/control consoles in order to allow it the same access to ship's systems.
In order to function in a role, the Brain needs an appropriate skill package.

So basically, add the Digital Friend Software and your ship's computer is now a Ship's Brain with greater capacity? Thinking of the Core Computers, not the little ones.

I have to disagree with Geir, as RH page 102 states that the Brain has a Dex = TL. Either virtual crew and Expert Pilot on the computer OR Give the Brain pilot skill, and it can pilot with its TL as Dex, meaning in most cases, it will be at least a DM+1 (TL12+).

This interpretation seems to make the most sense.

So, the Brain costs more to get the same access(or better with Haptics) wired throughout the ship. Bonus, even a Traveller can do it outside a shipyard. (I would roll secretly for each major system and not say anything about failures unless they RP significant testing)

This basically means that ships computers running Digital Friend software are better than Robot Brains, but ship's computers cannot be put in a robot-sized (Size 0-8) body. The ship's computer follows the rules for what size body it can be installed in without taking up space. Core 100 requires a Size 100 body at the Computer's TL. Ships are way bigger than Size 100. These rules mesh well together. I am just guessing that no one has ever thought of it like that before.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Also, what is the base INT for a Core/100? Or a Computer/40? Also, wouldn't this mean that a Core/100 could have every skill in the game at Skill Level/0? One per point of Base Bandwidth?

 

[Geir]

I have to disagree with Geir, as RH page 102 states that the Brain has a Dex = TL. Either virtual crew and Expert Pilot on the computer OR Give the Brain pilot skill, and it can pilot with its TL as Dex, meaning in most cases, it will be at least a DM+1 (TL12+).

Yes, I wrote that too, but that's with the Interface and Full Haptic . So pay your Cr7000 or 10000 per ton (cheaper if you wire it yourself), install a Ship's Brain and you can have Lucy fly the ship like it's her body.

But that's a Ship's Brain and not a Ship's Computer. The ship's computer isn't envisioned as doing that - though when it gets to TL16 and runs a Conscious Intelligence program, it likely ought to get to operate that way, but if you want to wire it to have DEX, at least pay the Cr2000 per ton. Otherwise, you get Virtual Crew. And even if you have skill 0 everywhere, you'd have to run one instance of the skill to fire each turret and, again without the haptics you don't get DM+3 at TL 15 for DEX: you're better off with one of them High Guard firing packages like Advanced Fire Control.

But that's the way I intended it, anyway. You can Rule Zero it anyway you want.

 

[AndrewW]

Yes, I wrote that too, but that's with the Interface and Full Haptic . So pay your Cr7000 or 10000 per ton (cheaper if you wire it yourself), install a Ship's Brain and you can have Lucy fly the ship like it's her body.

But that's a Ship's Brain and not a Ship's Computer. The ship's computer isn't envisioned as doing that - though when it gets to TL16 and runs a Conscious Intelligence program, it likely ought to get to operate that way, but if you want to wire it to have DEX, at least pay the Cr2000 per ton. Otherwise, you get Virtual Crew. And even if you have skill 0 everywhere, you'd have to run one instance of the skill to fire each turret and, again without the haptics you don't get DM+3 at TL 15 for DEX: you're better off with one of them High Guard firing packages like Advanced Fire Control.

Or stick in a Psion Integration Center.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Yes, I wrote that too, but that's with the Interface and Full Haptic . So pay your Cr7000 or 10000 per ton (cheaper if you wire it yourself), install a Ship's Brain and you can have Lucy fly the ship like it's her body.

But that's a Ship's Brain and not a Ship's Computer. The ship's computer isn't envisioned as doing that - though when it gets to TL16 and runs a Conscious Intelligence program, it likely ought to get to operate that way, but if you want to wire it to have DEX, at least pay the Cr2000 per ton. Otherwise, you get Virtual Crew. And even if you have skill 0 everywhere, you'd have to run one instance of the skill to fire each turret and, again without the haptics you don't get DM+3 at TL 15 for DEX: you're better off with one of them High Guard firing packages like Advanced Fire Control.

But that's the way I intended it, anyway. You can Rule Zero it anyway you want.

I have a conscious intelligence running my player's ship just like this.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Yes, I wrote that too, but that's with the Interface and Full Haptic . So pay your Cr7000 or 10000 per ton (cheaper if you wire it yourself), install a Ship's Brain and you can have Lucy fly the ship like it's her body.

But that's a Ship's Brain and not a Ship's Computer. The ship's computer isn't envisioned as doing that - though when it gets to TL16 and runs a Conscious Intelligence program, it likely ought to get to operate that way, but if you want to wire it to have DEX, at least pay the Cr2000 per ton. Otherwise, you get Virtual Crew. And even if you have skill 0 everywhere, you'd have to run one instance of the skill to fire each turret and, again without the haptics you don't get DM+3 at TL 15 for DEX: you're better off with one of them High Guard firing packages like Advanced Fire Control.

But that's the way I intended it, anyway. You can Rule Zero it anyway you want.

I love that you wrote all this awesome stuff! Something should be added that allows a Lucy as a Ship's Computer. Robot Brains don't make much sense for that since they are sooooo much smaller than a Ship's Computer. Instead, install whatever software that makes a brain, a brain. Then your ship's computer is a brain, but way more powerful than one that can fit in a Size 8 Robot. If you have to include the Interface as well, so be it. At this point the ship could run Advanced Fire Control as well. Add an avatar interface at each crew position. TL-15 should be able to control up to 8 crew positions using whatever skills were programmed into the Ship's Computer.

Just a neat idea, but it does make logical sense, since a robot brain is just a computer running software.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It just occurred to Me that perhaps the difference between Ship Brain and Ship Computer is that a Ship Computer already has the Interface, that is why it is wired throughout the entire ship. Other than that, the only difference is programming. If a Ship Computer is wired throughout the whole ship, why does its price not go up based on ship tonnage?

 

[Condottiere]

Bridging that gap does.

Wiring doesn't matter with a cockpit.

 

[Geir]

Computers as written are... as written. And take up no Space Slots dtons.
T5 doesn't seem to rely much on them at all, if I can figure it out (can't). And doesn't seem to have software either).

I don't know. The Classic system with it's jump tapes and all made sense when it was written more than forty years ago. What even a TL9 computer looks like, we'll probably get it wrong.

The thing that makes it Traveller, beyond economics or whatever, is the agency of the Travellers. If we think about it too much, the things we would end up playing might be the machines. Which would be perfectly reasonable for a Traveller:Terminator milieu.

 

[AndrewW]

Could be the wiring for the computer is already included in the cost of the hull, no need to base the cost of the computer on the tonnage.

 

[Condottiere]

That would be inconsistent in cost.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Computers as written are... as written. And take up no Space Slots dtons.
T5 doesn't seem to rely much on them at all, if I can figure it out (can't). And doesn't seem to have software either).

T5 explodes My brain. I can't understand T5 at all.

I don't know. The Classic system with it's jump tapes and all made sense when it was written more than forty years ago. What even a TL9 computer looks like, we'll probably get it wrong.

I agree that We have no idea what a TL-9 computer would look like.

The thing that makes it Traveller, beyond economics or whatever, is the agency of the Travellers. If we think about it too much, the things we would end up playing might be the machines. Which would be perfectly reasonable for a Traveller:Terminator milieu.

It just wouldn't be Charted Space, but Traveller isn't a setting. It is a system. It would still definitely be Traveller. With the RH, the Travellers can already be the machines. Biological or mechanical does not change the agency of the Travellers. Players being players, Travellers will always have agency.

 

[Arkathan]

Yes, I wrote that too, but that's with the Interface and Full Haptic . So pay your Cr7000 or 10000 per ton (cheaper if you wire it yourself), install a Ship's Brain and you can have Lucy fly the ship like it's her body.

But that's a Ship's Brain and not a Ship's Computer. The ship's computer isn't envisioned as doing that - though when it gets to TL16 and runs a Conscious Intelligence program, it likely ought to get to operate that way, but if you want to wire it to have DEX, at least pay the Cr2000 per ton. Otherwise, you get Virtual Crew. And even if you have skill 0 everywhere, you'd have to run one instance of the skill to fire each turret and, again without the haptics you don't get DM+3 at TL 15 for DEX: you're better off with one of them High Guard firing packages like Advanced Fire Control.

But that's the way I intended it, anyway. You can Rule Zero it anyway you want.

Yeah, I was going WITH the added Brain.
No need to rule zero.
Anyway, my current group is playing Sword Worlders who have had quite enough of robotic remote controls after going after a syndicate that was kidnapping people and turning them into meat puppets.

 

[Arkathan]

What even a TL9 computer looks like, we'll probably get it wrong.

No doubt there. Look at how many people carry the equivalent of a room sized 1980's super computer in their pockets. AND it's combined with a networked communicator.

 

[Arkathan]

Robot Brains don't make much sense for that since they are sooooo much smaller than a Ship's Computer. Instead, install whatever software that makes a brain, a brain. Then your ship's computer is a brain, but way more powerful than one that can fit in a Size 8 Robot. If you have to include the Interface as well, so be it. At this point the ship could run Advanced Fire Control as well. Add an avatar interface at each crew position. TL-15 should be able to control up to 8 crew positions using whatever skills were programmed into the Ship's Computer.

Just a neat idea, but it does make logical sense, since a robot brain is just a computer running software.

It CAN make sense when you use a robot brain as an overlay instead of thinking of it as a replacement. A small chassis brain takes up no effective space. Either on deck plans OR as computer bandwidth. That means that you have ROOM to run advanced fire control. Putting some of the crew skills on the brain frees up virtual crew space on the main core as well. Basically, fit out the computer with all of the stuff you NEED, and then pack all the nice to have features in the robot.

 

[Arkathan]

It just occurred to Me that perhaps the difference between Ship Brain and Ship Computer is that a Ship Computer already has the Interface, that is why it is wired throughout the entire ship. Other than that, the only difference is programming. If a Ship Computer is wired throughout the whole ship, why does its price not go up based on ship tonnage?

For the computer, the connections and nodes are built into the hull, and so are part of the hull cost. The processing power is the extra cost.
The added cost for connecting the ship's brain is so it has access to all of the consoles around the ship. Whether they are remote relay devices or hard wired connections, they are separate from the computer, and carry a different set of signals from what the computer is handling.