Ship Art

[Matian]

Confession: I have a huge love of WWII pinup art, specifically the variety used to decorate fighter planes and whatnot.

All the official Traveller art has ships bare, but what's to stop people from decorating them? What do YOU think ship art in the Third Imperium would look like?

My vision is something similar to WWII and pulp illustrations. I could see a scientist in the vein of Gil Elvgren jumping back at something exploding in a test tube, or a ridiculous Kirk/Fabio mashup with a space pirate in a vacc suit zipped down to *there* with the hairy chest sticking out.

What do you think it would look like? Shark faces on gun turrets? Vargr ships painted to look more wolf-like? Aslan pinups?

 

[Vile]

There would definitely be flames ... :twisted:

Other than that, I like the idea of spaceships with bright paintjobs - chevrons, chequers, the lot. Think Space Battleship Yamato.

 

[Matian]

Of course. The flames make things go faster.

(For a few seconds your picture didn't load, so I thought you meant I was going to get flamed for mentioning Aslan pinups. :lol: )

 

[CosmicGamer]

I have seen some that are quite colorful but they are a very small percentage and are usually 'show boats'. Just like todays boats, cars and planes, I think the majority of future vessels will not have a huge amount of 'art' and what you might find is a 'personal touch' or a logo and typically will be unique so there is no way to describe it all.

How do you paint in space?

For 'war paint' on a ship, who is going to get within close enough visual range to see it?

Maybe airlocks would be a likely place to put a logo or personal touch for people to see when they dock? But why not just put it inside the airlock where it is easier to paint and you have a 'captive' audience while the air cycles?

I don't think many traders who are working hard to make ends meet would take the time or money to decorate the outside of the ship. Maybe if a pilot or some other crew member has artistic talent and no duties when in port?

That week in jump space does give lots of time for decorating the interior of a ship (I think of Kaylees area on Serenity) and painting up smaller craft held inside.

Perhaps a list of craft that may be more likely to be decorated?
Shuttles, ships boats, and other small craft.
Military landing craft, fighters and other small craft.
Yachts
Company Logos on fleet vessels

I just flashed an image of a young girl donning her bedazzled pink grav belt and heading off for school.

 

[rust]

In my settings spaceships usually have a colour scheme, in the case of
ships owned by major companies and lines often a rather elaborate one,
with the company's or line's symbol prominently displayed. However,
"warpaint" is extremely rare and mostly considered a "rookie thing", as
ships do rarely get close enough to each other for seeing it. On the other
hand, personal vacc suits usually have distinctive colour markings or even
paintings on them, to make it easier to recognize the user.

 

[Gentleman John]

It would not surprise me to find nose-art on Traveller vessels. I'm sure there is a reference in one of the old CT LBBs (I think it is the Traders and Gunboats book) to X-boats being decorated by the pilots in order to make them individuals. IIRC, this was down to the practice of the IISS numbering their X-boats instead of naming them.

Certainly there is plenty of evidence for artwork outside of the 3I setting. For example, Belters in Known Space are well known for customising their suits - the most famous one being a suit with The Virgin of Port Ligat painted on it. Also, there are references in the GURPS Lensman book to one of the example PCs painting his speeder with a female Chickladorian, but with spare panels to provide her some modesty when in port.

On a more realistic note, I can imagine that nose-art could be used in order to inspire a team ethos in a crew. After all, a crew is likely to have more pride in their ship if it is easily identified, rather than just being a pennant number and transponder code. Nose-art could also be useful as a starting point for adventures that are being run in the vein of Marcus Rowland's Naval Academy campaign suggestion. Imagine a group of cadets taking revenge for vandalism of their training vessel's insignia. Lots of possibilities there.

 

[Kristovich]

I think it's a neat idea, and one that has never crossed me before.

First thing that springs to mind is kill markings for turrets, fighters and the like (And who's to say larger ships don't do 'em as well?). Indeed, this gives me some ideas for MTU...

I don't think the fact that the enemy won't see the warpaint will stop crews from doing it. I can see a number of reasons they would do it, actually. Personal touch, attached to the ship for one reason or another or just bored. And IMHO they look awesome 8)

Kill markings in particular strikes me as something crews could do as means of competetion among other crews and vessels, more than to intimidate enemies.

So, as for them being in OTU, I don't know, but I don't see why not? In MTU, they're from now on very common!

 

[CosmicGamer]

Kills with collaborating video can be documented in the gunners twitter page or the ships blog. Why limit bragging to the very small number of people that might see the hull marks?

I believe these days 'warpaint' is located in fairly accessible locations and applied with fairly easy to get materials. Is the XO going to authorize a spacewalk? Would the local hardware store or even the ships supply locker even carry 'space paint' that can be applied while taking a space walk or would the exterior typically only be painted by the shipyard?

 

[Gentleman John]

How hard would it be to fake the data, given that most kills would take place beyond visual range anyway? Besides, there is something that just appeals about kill-marks. As for applying them, XOs may well allow spacewalks. Alternatively, the marks could be applied on the ground or in dock. As for 'space paint', why not? there has to be some way of refreshing the essential information that would be located on the exterior of a ship's hull.

Still, as usual, what goes on in MTU may not be what goes on in YTU.

 

[BP]

Sure - and for no logical reasons - just like today. Pride and tradition can be very important 'reasons' for doing illogical things.

Look at modern space programs - logos are all over the place - even inside stellar space probes. Heck, they even have CDs with names placed in a comet impactor!

Nose art on bombs and missles is also fairly common.

Military as well as commercial vessels will likely be emblazoned with not only 'painted' art, but active (i.e. neon, holographics, animatronic) crests, logos and advertising. Be it orbiting or docking at highports, or screeching to a landing at downports - ships are still likely to attract attention - regardless of how common they are.

Besides - the chicks dig it. :lol:

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Of course any art would be highly unlikely to survive a "hot" planetary re-entry (or take-off).

That always bugged me about 'Serenity' and the habit of appliqué corpses.

 

[CosmicGamer]

It's good to have have a chance to discuss ideas before the players get a chance to tear them apart.

I would think it is just as easy to make a fake number of hash marks.

While landed, I guess you could throw a few hash marks on the landing gear or bely of the ship since thats about all that could be reached. I believe it would be hard to reach most of a ship while landed or in dock. I think 'refreshing' of markings would be done at the same time as maintaining or inspecting the overall exterior. This would not be done by gunners.

Note that I am not saying that it is impossible, just a lot harder than doing so on the easily reachable locations that people are giving as examples.

 

[Vile]

Of course any art would be highly unlikely to survive a "hot" planetary re-entry (or take-off).

I take your point about the strapped-on corpses, but there is no reason why artwork would burn off any more than any other markings, providing that they use the same technology. As has been mentioned, exterior markings will be renewed on a regular basis, so there will be opportunity to do so for artwork.

Agreed that 'DIY' art is unlikely on commercial vessels, although something like kill markings, if sanctioned by the military organisation in question, might result in some kind of standardised marking such as future-tech super-adhesive stickers or smart paint which can be programmed like a display. I always strive to remember that we are talking about technology beyond anything we know today. If I want something to work, it does, if I don't, it doesn't. It's just a question of making it sound plausible enough to satisfy yourself and your audience.

As for the type of ships where external art could be encountered, I think there are two consderations;

1: Ship Type: Ships which belong to organisations are unlikely to feature art unless it's sanctioned by the organisation, so any artwork depends on policy (which could vary widely). Privately owned ships will have artwork if the owner likes it - a Free Trade captain might think it's worth the cost, or he might be so strapped for cash that he only maintains his exterior finish when he's forced to in order to keep its spaceworthiness certificate.

2: Culture: Even within the restrictions of the above, cultural elements make a huge difference. For just one example, look at WWII aircraft - personalised or official art on British aircraft was very rare, but quite common on their German counterparts, not just in the form of nose art but also squadron markings, etc. While one corporation might be totally 'straight' and display their corporate image through plain and identical finishes, another might hire an entire department of artists and designers to develop schemes for classes or individual ships.

 

[BP]

...it would be hard to reach most of a ship while landed or in dock. I think 'refreshing' of markings would be done at the same time as maintaining or inspecting the overall exterior. This would not be done by gunners.

Note that I am not saying that it is impossible, just a lot harder than doing so on the easily reachable locations that people are giving as examples.

Grav Belts?

Not to mention docks and landing pads will likely have convenient gantries and lifts for servicing that could be 'borrowed'

Also, craft generally have airlocks and possibly simple gear/hand/foot holds for maintaining the outside hull. Even small robots might be used, explicitly for these purposes.

As for surviving atmo/re-entry this would surely be addressed. For instance, color could be 'injected' (or optically created) so that even as material was bunred, ablated, scrapped, abraided, washed and otherwise maligned the markings and art would still survive. It would not be out of line to figure that things done as a matter of pride could even be refreshed almost every trip - just a matter of some hours not otherwise occupied.

Its been my experience that people will often expend their greatest physical, mental and creative energies on the silliest of pursuits... (think 'professional sports' fandom, customized cell phone cases, etc. - RPGs don't count as they are educational :wink To quote Sienfield - 'Not that there's anything wrong with that...'

For fun I googled 'pilot kill marks' and looks like 'unofficial' - even against military regs - markings aren't uncommon. Not to mention bogus ones - one book even stated '...number of kill marks on a fighter and the pilot's war record often did not match...'. This one was kind of amusing...

 

[Matian]

For fun I googled 'pilot kill marks' and looks like 'unofficial' - even against military regs - markings aren't uncommon. Not to mention bogus ones - one book even stated '...number of kill marks on a fighter and the pilot's war record often did not match...'. This one was kind of amusing...

In WWII one of my grandpa's friends had a scarf embroidered with swastikas. One stitch for each kill = 8 dead Nazi pilots for every full swastika. Other pilots marked them on the backs of post cards or photos of loved ones. It seems to have been a common method, at least in Canada.

So even if you can't make kill marks on the ship/turret itself, there's no reason people wouldn't find other ways of keeping track.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Grav Belts?

I considered this out of reach (because of price) for the average crewman and also an item not likely to be 'checked out' unless the crewman has a 'work order'.

Not to mention docks and landing pads will likely have convenient gantries and lifts for servicing that could be 'borrowed'

I considered this too and felt that security around ships, especially military ones would be pretty tight. Don't want some terrorist roaming about the hull planting bombs. So again, only authorized personnel and possibly nobody from the ship does 'yard work' and only shipyard crew have access.

Also, craft generally have airlocks and possibly simple gear/hand/foot holds for maintaining the outside hull.

Cycling a airlock not being used for loading/unloading will probably set off alarms. Same security issues. Don't want unauthorized folk getting into your ship.

Again, not saying impossible, especially if such activity is encouraged by those in charge.

Even small robots might be used, explicitly for these purposes.

Hadn't thought of this one. Nice.

For fun I googled 'pilot kill marks' and looks like 'unofficial' - even against military regs - markings aren't uncommon.

I think these examples are not very comparable. The locations are easily accessible without any special training or gear (no vacc suit skill needed, no grav belt needed, maybe a stepladder), little time needed(less likely to be caught), simple supplies (no special paints to withstand reentry or for application while in space). For whatever reason, fighter planes are 'marked' with pilot name, squadron emblem and whatnot but I don't recall ships having much graffiti even though there is a lot more surface area to work with. As I mentioned before, I do believe that in jump space there is plenty of time and easier access (especially for 'hanger' or other appropriate crew) to paint up the smaller craft held inside the jump ship.

Its been my experience that people will often expend their greatest physical, mental and creative energies on the silliest of pursuits... (think 'professional sports' fandom, customized cell phone cases, etc.

Would a crewman who has been in space for who knows how long be taking time to mark up the ship when they get 'shore leave'? Maybe as a dare after drinking with their buddies?

Vile had good points in his previous post. If some tradition of markings is being done IYTU, I would think you need to determine if it is authorized, 'look the other way', or discouraged "not only are you going to clean that off, you are going to be cleaning decks the whole time were in port!" because it could determine the quantity/detail of markings and also turn into some interesting role playing, like getting caught painting the ship.

 

[Jhary]

Ok Out side Marking are Only on an ship when the Captain want them but the wall next to the Turret entry is avaible for Crewman´s. Normaly no Oficier woud say no if the Gunnercrew woud use the wall as Blackboard an dekorse it with Killmarking. Ok the Ship Cantina will have Pinups as Submarine Today.

 

[BP]

... For whatever reason, fighter planes are 'marked' with pilot name, squadron emblem and whatnot but I don't recall ships having much graffiti even though there is a lot more surface area to work with. ...

Ah - you are comparing space ships to Naval ships!

So this is very setting dependent - and even within settings - like in the 3I the Imperial and Subsector navies might be clean and official (with dire consequences otherwise) - while planetary navies might be all sorts of guady and outlandish just to differentiate themselves.

Culture and Tradition play a big factor there - the markings on aircraft are really just a tradition that someone started and others followed (despite regs). So Naval avaition forces would have adopted this otherwise non-Naval aspect.

I have the strong impression that navies equate clean-ness with discipline (aside from obvious related health/survival needs in other areas). Given the fact that naval crews have to live 24x7 with each other and individually can endanger everyone on board - discipline and regs have to be serious business. Not to say other branches don't - but navies have a definite flare for it - the spic and span beyond what is required to maintain integrity against the harsh environment of salt water seas. Historically, navies were the projection of power and pride of many countries. Looking their absolute best was probably equivalent to law - hull art would probably be considered vandalism at best.

Having spent my early years around large commercial vessels (mostly freighters and oil tankers)- I can definitely say the same rarely held true for them. Rust, stains, rough and shoddy looking hull repairs - yes, even graffiti - were common sights. More to the point - that graffiti would be all over the ship - from hull to superstructure - nothing seemed off limits. And these suckers were BIG and generally smooth - so would probably equate quite well to space ships.

Don't recall any real advertising - but that was some years before the modern Marketing Error (-er- Era) we have today...

 

[Infojunky]

Y'all know that sometimes things just appear on the sides of ships, Kinda like the "Show Us Your Tits" that kept showing up on the port side of the USS Constellation in '86 & '87, Just forward of the Chaplain's office port hole. (whic was a good 15 feet below the port catwalk.

You know you would think they would have figured it out after a certain crew went down the starboard chainway to renew the gold paint on the Starboard Shithook. (and Yes we were technically "underway" during that evolution)

 

[Sturn]

Of course any art would be highly unlikely to survive a "hot" planetary re-entry (or take-off).

With our current Terran TL you mean? But we are talking Traveller here with options up to TL 15 depending on the setting. "Entry Paint" or "Entry Tiles" could easily have been invented.

Here is a picture of a small craft(90 ton?) that seems to have just survived entry with several markings at around TL 7 or 8? Perhaps by "hot" you don't mean a slower gliding entry, but if markings survive at this TL with a slower entry, I'm sure some hardier paint or sealant could have been invented in the next 8 TL's. :wink: