Shamath's riddle -- An entirely Different Approach

V

Vassagonian

Mongoose
I looked at the Project Aon posting and noticed something most people have left out:

http://www.projectaon.org/en/xhtml/lw/16tlov/sect189.htm

"Study the words of Shamath's riddle carefully"

Bolding mine.
After all, why not just have "Study the riddle carefully"?

I suspect rather than this being a straight math algebra question its probably more of an anagram or word puzzle.

I suspect also if you take the individual letters from "loyal servants" "Dwellers of the Abyss" and "Lieutants of Night" it will end up being something that looks like TwENty and you then remove the 3 letters to get TEN.

After all, it talks about "half were beholden to 'Dwellers of the Abyss'" so that probably means duplicates are meant to go when you "subtract" that from the sentence.

Killing the traitor probably also means removing a duplicate or obviously false letter. [my initial guess would be v]
 
I'm sorry, but that's far too contrived and I doubt even Joe Dever himself thought about that. I have to slash your theory with Occam's Razor and suggest that the riddle being broken is the simplest explanation.
 
Occam's Razor equally suggests the riddle was designed not to be solved to force a battle, rather than being broken, yet you suggest its broken before considering my suggestion.

Saying my answer is contrived is like saying "E" cant be the solution to "Whats next in this sequence OTTFFSS""
 
Sir, if this was really the solution, don't you think out of the millions of readers who've gone through that damn riddle and out of the thousands of hardened fans who've broken it down someone would have already come up with it? Furthermore the theory breaks down even more when you take into account of the text being translated into other languages like French or Spanish. Lone Wolf wasn't solely published in English. Your theory is flawed.

It's just a broken riddle. Joe Dever is just a man; he makes mistakes.
 
Hmm ... interesting theory. I don't know if was correct or not. JD didn't start using the "replace all the letters with numbers" idea until Book 25, and thankfully only the once as I hate those.

If this is, indeed correct, then you are the only person to have spotted it! I don't know, that seems far too complex though. I suspect it is just a broken riddle, but then again, what do I know? :D
 
I posted it in the other Shamath's riddle thread, but it probably belongs here, too:

After a while, I finally decided that X = X meant that Roman numeral X, which is 10, equaled X. Because that makes as much sense as anything else I've read.
 
johntfs said:
I posted it in the other Shamath's riddle thread, but it probably belongs here, too:

After a while, I finally decided that X = X meant that Roman numeral X, which is 10, equaled X. Because that makes as much sense as anything else I've read.
Click to expand...

The flaw in that argument is that people could use a variable other than X, like N for number for example.
 
Kojiro said:
johntfs said:
I posted it in the other Shamath's riddle thread, but it probably belongs here, too:

After a while, I finally decided that X = X meant that Roman numeral X, which is 10, equaled X. Because that makes as much sense as anything else I've read.
Click to expand...

The flaw in that argument is that people could use a variable other than X, like N for number for example.
Click to expand...

What do you want out of us, Kojiro? You posted this question and you've shot down every answer that's come your way! Yes, it's a broken puzzle. No, we don't know why. Go ask Dever. Look on the PA forums: he'll be in Germany answering questions as submitted by fans.
 
Zipp Dementia said:
Kojiro said:
johntfs said:
I posted it in the other Shamath's riddle thread, but it probably belongs here, too:

After a while, I finally decided that X = X meant that Roman numeral X, which is 10, equaled X. Because that makes as much sense as anything else I've read.
Click to expand...

The flaw in that argument is that people could use a variable other than X, like N for number for example.
Click to expand...

What do you want out of us, Kojiro? You posted this question and you've shot down every answer that's come your way! Yes, it's a broken puzzle. No, we don't know why. Go ask Dever. Look on the PA forums: he'll be in Germany answering questions as submitted by fans.
Click to expand...

I asked if it was going to be fixed, not what the "secret" to solving it was. Way to misrepresent my arguments.
 
You might be able to understand my confusion. After all, this particular thread WAS NOT started to ask if Dever would fix the puzzle but rather was started to discuss a new possibility for solving the puzzle. You posted next and, in your own words, "slashed" that theory, and then continued to negatively comment on every other possibility that was mentioned. That's all I was responding to.
 
Zipp Dementia said:
You might be able to understand my confusion. After all, this particular thread WAS NOT started to ask if Dever would fix the puzzle but rather was started to discuss a new possibility for solving the puzzle. You posted next and, in your own words, "slashed" that theory, and then continued to negatively comment on every other possibility that was mentioned. That's all I was responding to.
Click to expand...

Well my apologies for thinking the Holy Dever could make a legitimate mistake. I will keep my heresy to myself from now on.
 
Kojiro said:
Well my apologies for thinking the Holy Dever could make a legitimate mistake. I will keep my heresy to myself from now on.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? There's no Dever worship on this question. We all of us admit, at least to ourselves, that it's a broken puzzle. So, in that spirit, we are submitting "broken answers." Do I really believe that 10 can be derived from assuming the variable is "X" which is also the Roman way representing 10? I do not. As I stated in the other thread devoted to this question: The riddle is absurd, therefore, my answer is also absurd.

You are correct, Kojiro. My answer and the way that I derived it is illogical and absurd. In other news, the middle of the ocean is wet and the core of the sun is hot.
 
johntfs said:
Kojiro said:
Well my apologies for thinking the Holy Dever could make a legitimate mistake. I will keep my heresy to myself from now on.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? There's no Dever worship on this question. We all of us admit, at least to ourselves, that it's a broken puzzle. So, in that spirit, we are submitting "broken answers." Do I really believe that 10 can be derived from assuming the variable is "X" which is also the Roman way representing 10? I do not. As I stated in the other thread devoted to this question: The riddle is absurd, therefore, my answer is also absurd.

You are correct, Kojiro. My answer and the way that I derived it is illogical and absurd. In other news, the middle of the ocean is wet and the core of the sun is hot.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Kojiro. It's not your opinion I'm having fault with, it's your attitude. That's putting it pretty bluntly, but I don't know... rather than getting upset about it, know that my words aren't spoken to belittle you, and move on, maybe with a slight change in that attitude.

Now we all see the real point of Shamath's riddle. It's to make us fight amongst ourselves. That rascally demoness!
 
Zipp Dementia said:
Exactly, Kojiro. It's not your opinion I'm having fault with, it's your attitude. That's putting it pretty bluntly, but I don't know... rather than getting upset about it, know that my words aren't spoken to belittle you, and move on, maybe with a slight change in that attitude.
Click to expand...

From my observation, it's you who's with attitude. I've been merely pointing out the flaws of the admitted "broken answers" and you came in like a crusading knight, chastising me for daring so. Before you point fingers, look in the mirror.
 
Kojiro said:
Zipp Dementia said:
Exactly, Kojiro. It's not your opinion I'm having fault with, it's your attitude. That's putting it pretty bluntly, but I don't know... rather than getting upset about it, know that my words aren't spoken to belittle you, and move on, maybe with a slight change in that attitude.
Click to expand...

From my observation, it's you who's with attitude. I've been merely pointing out the flaws of the admitted "broken answers" and you came in like a crusading knight, chastising me for daring so. Before you point fingers, look in the mirror.
Click to expand...

Okay. So we're both jerks with attitude problems.
 
Vassagonian said:
I suspect rather than this being a straight math algebra question its probably more of an anagram or word puzzle.

I suspect also if you take the individual letters from "loyal servants" "Dwellers of the Abyss" and "Lieutants of Night" it will end up being something that looks like TwENty and you then remove the 3 letters to get TEN.
Click to expand...

I always thought it was 10 because Shamath says 'atTENd with care...' odd choice of word but yes surely this would be lost in the translation.

Probably a stupid question, may have been answered on his or a previous thread but has any publishers or even Joe himself admitted that the riddle was unsolvable?
 
Actually, this riddle is extremely EASY...I explained it on my website a long time ago on how to do it, but it never took.

The combat results table is based off a D10, in fact I usually use a D10.

Those numbers used to (and still do on many a D10) go from 1-9, 0, with 0 many times representing a 10.

the answer always should result in a 0.

Obviously there IS NO 0 in the book, with 1 being the first number.

Hence, as a D10, 0 would actually NOT be = 0 , but actually...10.
 
Ehhh... maaaaybe, but there's nothing that directs you to consider the Random Number Table in the text itself. It just simply declares to study the riddle carefully.

Your theory seems just as much a stretch as the rest.
 
I thought it was ten because I went page by page through the book until I came to section 10 and found that was the answer to the riddle. It's broken. There is no reasonable logic that leads to the correct (or any other) answer. The riddle is a cheat. So, you can either fight Shamath or cheat back. I choose to cheat back.
 
She is evil as has been said before. Perhaps she posed an unsolvable riddle to someone like LW who wouldn't 'know' how many asistants, etc. she has. Ten merely being the correct answer stumbled upon by blind luck. Looked at the text again yesterday just in case I had missed something over the years: 12 Stalagtites, 12 Automatons ('Dozen'), 20 Attendants ('Score') - the last two appear AFTER the riddle. Don't know how many Chegtah she has either. Nothing. Must be broke.
 
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