shamans
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They find spirits, and either keep them safe in a fetish until they need to pop them out and gain their benefit (increased attributes, integrated elemental powers, protection from magic, etc.) or they can have them out all the time but vulnerable to attacks and dismissal. How to find spirits is a bit vague, I'm going to use Simon's RQ3 Spirit Plane Encounter Tables, I think.
Shamans seem to start out with a bit of a raw deal. They start off with one or two small spirits, and there are no rules on how to get more. Sorcerors start off with one or two grimoires and their spells are very powerful indeed, but the shaman in my party started off really crap. All she had really was a load of Common Magic, and that was nothing to do with being a shaman.
When my PCs faced a couple of shamans in Five Eyes Temple they were only saved from disaster by a couple of lucky dice rolls. Once they'd made those, though, the Shamans were easy pickings. I'm currently working on a couple of "tough" shamans to see how they could be more, erm, sustainable. In AH-RQIII they could be terrifying through their control of ghosts, wraiths etc. I'm trying to translate that to MRQII without just "copying" stats. It's more difficult than I thought.
There are a few spirit types you could use for Shamans in Cults of Glorantha:
These include Magic Spirits (knows POW worth of common magic and may cast it for the shaman, also allows user to use their Common magic skill or Persistence), Healing Spirits (act as a Heal Body divine - could be varied with other divine type effects such as Heal Mind or cure Disease), Knowledge Spirits (can see the past and even some way in to the future) and Pain Spirits (nasty, inflict pain that causes fatigue levels) - maybe even Wyters or something similar (for protecting spiritual holy spots).
If I recall rightly these are shown under the cults of Pamalt, Gorgamora and Orlanth amongst others. Storm Bull has some good examples of nature type spirits as well.
I'm working on some other spirit ideas at the moment, these include Mobility Spirits (increase move or DEX), Fear Spirits (cause Demoralise), Chaos Spirits (chaotic feature anyone?), Confusion spirits (cause Befuddlement, I think... :? ), Light spirit (the proverbial solar powered torch), Darkness spirit (handy for hiding) etc. The integrated rune table is a good source of inspiration for spirit types.
I'll add them to the forum once I've tidied them up and thought them through a bit more.
Lower ranking shamans do seem to have to rely on common magic a lot initially, getting your Spirit Walking and Binding skills up and spending time capturing new spirits between adventures is a wise investment I'd say.
These include Magic Spirits (knows POW worth of common magic and may cast it for the shaman, also allows user to use their Common magic skill or Persistence), Healing Spirits (act as a Heal Body divine - could be varied with other divine type effects such as Heal Mind or cure Disease), Knowledge Spirits (can see the past and even some way in to the future) and Pain Spirits (nasty, inflict pain that causes fatigue levels) - maybe even Wyters or something similar (for protecting spiritual holy spots).
If I recall rightly these are shown under the cults of Pamalt, Gorgamora and Orlanth amongst others. Storm Bull has some good examples of nature type spirits as well.
I'm working on some other spirit ideas at the moment, these include Mobility Spirits (increase move or DEX), Fear Spirits (cause Demoralise), Chaos Spirits (chaotic feature anyone?), Confusion spirits (cause Befuddlement, I think... :? ), Light spirit (the proverbial solar powered torch), Darkness spirit (handy for hiding) etc. The integrated rune table is a good source of inspiration for spirit types.
I'll add them to the forum once I've tidied them up and thought them through a bit more.
Lower ranking shamans do seem to have to rely on common magic a lot initially, getting your Spirit Walking and Binding skills up and spending time capturing new spirits between adventures is a wise investment I'd say.
Here are a few Spirit Types I have gleaned form Cults of Glorantha and Monster Coliseum. The dice for the characteristic scores are my own interpretation based on the values shown for examples in the above books, anything written in italics is also my own interpretation. The rest is based on their write ups in the above books, which is often quite brief.
Additional Spirit Types
Magic Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Common Magic (POWx5%), Persistence (POWx5%)
Magic spirits always know a magnitude of Common Magic spells up to their POW, with a maximum magnitude for each spell equivalent to their Intensity. It will lend its POW as Magic Points and its Common Magic can be used in place of the mortals when casting Common Magic. Its Persistence can be used in place of the mortals for resisting spells that require Persistence.
Knowledge Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW 10 +1D6 per Intensity
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Spectral Questioning (POWx5%)
If the owner of a Knowledge spirit can beat it in an opposed test of Spirit Binding versus Spectral Questioning, the spirit will reveal hidden knowledge by answering, correctly and accurately, a number of questions up to its Intensity. It can see no more than its Intensity in days into the future but up to its Intensity x 100 years into the past.
Healing Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Persistence (POWx4%)
Linked to the Fertility rune, Healing spirits provide magical healing equivalent to a Heal Body Divine spell with a magnitude equal to its Intensity. Most Healing spirits are at least Intensity 3 or more.
Other possible Healing spirits may provide the different spells such as Cure Disease, Heal Mind or Heal Wound.
Pain Spirits
INT 1D6
POW 3D6 and upward
CHA 1D6
Skills: Spectral Combat (POWx5%)
Pain spirits are often associated with the Gorgorma cult. Pain spirits inflict terrible pain on those they possess, this varies with the Intensity of the spirit as below:
Intensity 1: Aching, cramps Inflicts one level of Fatigue
Intensity 2: Crippling pain Inflicts two levels of Fatigue
Intensity 3: Debilitating pain Inflicts four levels of Fatigue
Birthing Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Persistence (POWx4%)
A birthing spirit will ease the pain of childbirth if offered a favour or gift in the mundane world. Such spirits also provide some form of blessing to the new born child, often in the form of a bonus to a characteristic score equal to the spirits Intensity.
Creatures that may be bound by a Shaman
Chonchon – may be defeated on the spirit plane and bound in to a fetish, once released in the mundane plane they instantly form a corporeal body and may be commanded to attack a suitable foe. Only suitable for night or in darker areas as they are banished by direct sunlight.
Ghoul – Ghoul spirits that have yet to inhabit a body may be defeated and bound by a shaman if he can defeat their Spectral Claw attack. The ghoul spirit may be used to inhabit any recently dead body and reanimate it. The ghoul spirit could also be used to give the shaman a poisonous bite attack, a claw attack or a demoralising howl as for a normal ghoul.
Wraiths and Ghosts – Wraiths and ghosts are merely different names for malevolent ancestor like spirits and may be defeated and bound by a skilled shaman.
I hope this helps, it does demonstrate the many varied spirits available to a shaman.
I've popped them on the Wiki now as well.
Additional Spirit Types
Magic Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Common Magic (POWx5%), Persistence (POWx5%)
Magic spirits always know a magnitude of Common Magic spells up to their POW, with a maximum magnitude for each spell equivalent to their Intensity. It will lend its POW as Magic Points and its Common Magic can be used in place of the mortals when casting Common Magic. Its Persistence can be used in place of the mortals for resisting spells that require Persistence.
Knowledge Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW 10 +1D6 per Intensity
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Spectral Questioning (POWx5%)
If the owner of a Knowledge spirit can beat it in an opposed test of Spirit Binding versus Spectral Questioning, the spirit will reveal hidden knowledge by answering, correctly and accurately, a number of questions up to its Intensity. It can see no more than its Intensity in days into the future but up to its Intensity x 100 years into the past.
Healing Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Persistence (POWx4%)
Linked to the Fertility rune, Healing spirits provide magical healing equivalent to a Heal Body Divine spell with a magnitude equal to its Intensity. Most Healing spirits are at least Intensity 3 or more.
Other possible Healing spirits may provide the different spells such as Cure Disease, Heal Mind or Heal Wound.
Pain Spirits
INT 1D6
POW 3D6 and upward
CHA 1D6
Skills: Spectral Combat (POWx5%)
Pain spirits are often associated with the Gorgorma cult. Pain spirits inflict terrible pain on those they possess, this varies with the Intensity of the spirit as below:
Intensity 1: Aching, cramps Inflicts one level of Fatigue
Intensity 2: Crippling pain Inflicts two levels of Fatigue
Intensity 3: Debilitating pain Inflicts four levels of Fatigue
Birthing Spirit
INT as Intensity
POW Intensity in D6's +6
CHA as Intensity
Skills: Persistence (POWx4%)
A birthing spirit will ease the pain of childbirth if offered a favour or gift in the mundane world. Such spirits also provide some form of blessing to the new born child, often in the form of a bonus to a characteristic score equal to the spirits Intensity.
Creatures that may be bound by a Shaman
Chonchon – may be defeated on the spirit plane and bound in to a fetish, once released in the mundane plane they instantly form a corporeal body and may be commanded to attack a suitable foe. Only suitable for night or in darker areas as they are banished by direct sunlight.
Ghoul – Ghoul spirits that have yet to inhabit a body may be defeated and bound by a shaman if he can defeat their Spectral Claw attack. The ghoul spirit may be used to inhabit any recently dead body and reanimate it. The ghoul spirit could also be used to give the shaman a poisonous bite attack, a claw attack or a demoralising howl as for a normal ghoul.
Wraiths and Ghosts – Wraiths and ghosts are merely different names for malevolent ancestor like spirits and may be defeated and bound by a skilled shaman.
I hope this helps, it does demonstrate the many varied spirits available to a shaman.
I've popped them on the Wiki now as well.
Here are a few notes on spirits and spirit magic that I have compiled based on my own house rules or discussions on spirit magic that have taken place on the forum previously. I thought they may be of some help.
Active Spirits and Fetish Bound Spirits
Shamans may keep a spirit active for as long as they desire although this does make the spirit potentially vulnerable to possible magical attack. A spirit bound into a fetish is far safer from magical attack and can be safely hidden about the shamans person.
If someone who was not a Spirit Magic user held a fetish then the fetish remains quiescent in their hands. The spirit is trapped within until called forth, without the correct knowledge he cannot use it. However, there is nothing to prevent the holder from physically breaking the fetish which will sunder the binding and allow the spirit to return to the Spirit Plane (to do as it will). How vulnerable the fetish is depends on the culture and setting and relevant to the spirit bound to it. Examples include bear tooth or claw for a bear, or feathers for an eagle spirit, a river pebble for a fish spirit, and so on.
It is also possible for a shaman to deliberately make a fetish breakable if he wishes to release the spirit for some purpose, such as a disease spirit bound into a rotting log to be left on an enemy tribes log pile, or a malevolent ghost bound into a sealed pot that could be thrown at an enemy.
Spirits Bound for use by Others
A shaman can bind spirits for others to use, and they don't count against his CHA limit once they are handed over. However the recipient would require the Spirit Binding skill or a control spell of some sort in order to use them (although see the note about deliberately breaking a fetish above). If the holder is from the same spiritual tradition as the shaman or is the original recipient of the fetish then they may release and command the spirit using half their raw Persistence skill instead of requiring a Spirit Binding skill (my own house rule based on the fact that this is how spirit combat is conducted by those without the Spirit Binding skill).
Fetches
A shaman on the spirit plane cannot access his fetch if they remain on the mundane plane. A shaman often uses his fetch in this way to guard his physical body as he explores the spirit plane.
Spirit Combat
During spirit combat when a person's soul is dragged into the spirit world he normally collapses and loose all his senses. His body may well then display symptoms or marks appropriate to the spirit attacking him, such as horrible boils appearing and disappearing if he were attacked by a disease spirit. If the victim defeats the spirit then all the symptoms disappear and he regains his senses.
If a shaman were attacked in spirit combat he would merely lapse into a controlled trance usually in a sitting or prone position, due to his experience gained from his Spirit Walking skill. The shaman would most likely exhibit some physical manifestation of their battle, as above. At the end of the spirit combat, if the shaman has won, he'll regain his senses as normal.
Ancestor Spirits
Ancestors are venerated in a similar manner to gods - sometimes in place of gods. A divine worshipper doesn't continually invoke his god; instead, his behaviour modifies according to his god's nature and he channels his magic through his spells. This is the same with ancestors. Through veneration an ancestor worshipper hopes to emulate their greatness and deeds, and become an ancestor himself. He will go to them occasionally for help, but the spiritual relationship is the important part. It defines him. His daily interaction with the spirit world will be with those spirits he's capable of controlling; but his relationship and approach is defined through those ancestors he venerates. This makes ancestor worship something to be defined through play and used as a backdrop rather than specific magical source.
Elemental Spirits
Shamans can release elemental spirits so that they act as physical elementals but only shamans can internalise an elemental spirit; other magicians can summon and control the physical representation of the elemental but cannot internalise it. With elementals each point of Intensity normally represents one cubic metre.
Allied Spirits
An allied spirit is usually a spirit the shaman has negotiated with before and who's name he has learnt. If a shaman has an allied spirit not bound into a fetish, he would need to placate it and negotiate its service. The spirit will be easy for him to find as it will remain in his vicinity on the spirit plane, but getting it to work for him will require negotiation of some form – this could be simply abstract as either an Influence roll, opposed by Persistence, or a full-on spirit combat to convince the spirit to do what he wants.
Locating Spirits
Spirits often tend to linger around remote areas that are appropriate to their nature, out of normal sight on the spirit plane. So, for example, a darkness spirit would be found deep within a cave system, or a sickness spirit would be found around a former plague site. Further suggestions for locating spirits are found below.
Ancestor spirits – These are almost always found close to the tribe or community they originally belonged to when mortal. Some communities will have shrines or statues to their ancestors, others will use old burial sites, bones or ancient tribal regalia as a focus to venerate their forebears.
Bane spirits – These are linked to the Chaos Rune and are usually found at sites associated with chaos in some way. Snake Pipe Hollow and the borders of Dorastor are examples of more commonly known sites, but many smaller and less well known sites exist as well.
Elemental spirits – These spirits are found around in areas with strong links to their particular elemental nature; so salamanders would be found close to volcanoes, whilst undines would be found in rivers. Elemental Summoning is another way for these spirits to be called forth.
Guardian spirits – Theses are strongly associated with the rune of Magic and are most often found in areas where great magic has been practised or a where a god invoked the power of a Rune.
Nature spirits – Nature spirits vary greatly in form and are most likely to be encountered in an environment suited to their mundane kin. A bison spirit, for example, may be found following the great herds across the plains, a crow spirit would be found at an ancient rookery and an ancient oak tree spirit would be found in the oldest part of a forest amongst the veteran oak trees.
Sickness spirits – These spirits are tied to the Death Rune and tend to gather on the spirit plane close to bodies of the recently dead.
Curse spirits – These spirits are tied to the Disorder Rune and tend to be found at sites of great disaster and misfortune.
Active Spirits and Fetish Bound Spirits
Shamans may keep a spirit active for as long as they desire although this does make the spirit potentially vulnerable to possible magical attack. A spirit bound into a fetish is far safer from magical attack and can be safely hidden about the shamans person.
If someone who was not a Spirit Magic user held a fetish then the fetish remains quiescent in their hands. The spirit is trapped within until called forth, without the correct knowledge he cannot use it. However, there is nothing to prevent the holder from physically breaking the fetish which will sunder the binding and allow the spirit to return to the Spirit Plane (to do as it will). How vulnerable the fetish is depends on the culture and setting and relevant to the spirit bound to it. Examples include bear tooth or claw for a bear, or feathers for an eagle spirit, a river pebble for a fish spirit, and so on.
It is also possible for a shaman to deliberately make a fetish breakable if he wishes to release the spirit for some purpose, such as a disease spirit bound into a rotting log to be left on an enemy tribes log pile, or a malevolent ghost bound into a sealed pot that could be thrown at an enemy.
Spirits Bound for use by Others
A shaman can bind spirits for others to use, and they don't count against his CHA limit once they are handed over. However the recipient would require the Spirit Binding skill or a control spell of some sort in order to use them (although see the note about deliberately breaking a fetish above). If the holder is from the same spiritual tradition as the shaman or is the original recipient of the fetish then they may release and command the spirit using half their raw Persistence skill instead of requiring a Spirit Binding skill (my own house rule based on the fact that this is how spirit combat is conducted by those without the Spirit Binding skill).
Fetches
A shaman on the spirit plane cannot access his fetch if they remain on the mundane plane. A shaman often uses his fetch in this way to guard his physical body as he explores the spirit plane.
Spirit Combat
During spirit combat when a person's soul is dragged into the spirit world he normally collapses and loose all his senses. His body may well then display symptoms or marks appropriate to the spirit attacking him, such as horrible boils appearing and disappearing if he were attacked by a disease spirit. If the victim defeats the spirit then all the symptoms disappear and he regains his senses.
If a shaman were attacked in spirit combat he would merely lapse into a controlled trance usually in a sitting or prone position, due to his experience gained from his Spirit Walking skill. The shaman would most likely exhibit some physical manifestation of their battle, as above. At the end of the spirit combat, if the shaman has won, he'll regain his senses as normal.
Ancestor Spirits
Ancestors are venerated in a similar manner to gods - sometimes in place of gods. A divine worshipper doesn't continually invoke his god; instead, his behaviour modifies according to his god's nature and he channels his magic through his spells. This is the same with ancestors. Through veneration an ancestor worshipper hopes to emulate their greatness and deeds, and become an ancestor himself. He will go to them occasionally for help, but the spiritual relationship is the important part. It defines him. His daily interaction with the spirit world will be with those spirits he's capable of controlling; but his relationship and approach is defined through those ancestors he venerates. This makes ancestor worship something to be defined through play and used as a backdrop rather than specific magical source.
Elemental Spirits
Shamans can release elemental spirits so that they act as physical elementals but only shamans can internalise an elemental spirit; other magicians can summon and control the physical representation of the elemental but cannot internalise it. With elementals each point of Intensity normally represents one cubic metre.
Allied Spirits
An allied spirit is usually a spirit the shaman has negotiated with before and who's name he has learnt. If a shaman has an allied spirit not bound into a fetish, he would need to placate it and negotiate its service. The spirit will be easy for him to find as it will remain in his vicinity on the spirit plane, but getting it to work for him will require negotiation of some form – this could be simply abstract as either an Influence roll, opposed by Persistence, or a full-on spirit combat to convince the spirit to do what he wants.
Locating Spirits
Spirits often tend to linger around remote areas that are appropriate to their nature, out of normal sight on the spirit plane. So, for example, a darkness spirit would be found deep within a cave system, or a sickness spirit would be found around a former plague site. Further suggestions for locating spirits are found below.
Ancestor spirits – These are almost always found close to the tribe or community they originally belonged to when mortal. Some communities will have shrines or statues to their ancestors, others will use old burial sites, bones or ancient tribal regalia as a focus to venerate their forebears.
Bane spirits – These are linked to the Chaos Rune and are usually found at sites associated with chaos in some way. Snake Pipe Hollow and the borders of Dorastor are examples of more commonly known sites, but many smaller and less well known sites exist as well.
Elemental spirits – These spirits are found around in areas with strong links to their particular elemental nature; so salamanders would be found close to volcanoes, whilst undines would be found in rivers. Elemental Summoning is another way for these spirits to be called forth.
Guardian spirits – Theses are strongly associated with the rune of Magic and are most often found in areas where great magic has been practised or a where a god invoked the power of a Rune.
Nature spirits – Nature spirits vary greatly in form and are most likely to be encountered in an environment suited to their mundane kin. A bison spirit, for example, may be found following the great herds across the plains, a crow spirit would be found at an ancient rookery and an ancient oak tree spirit would be found in the oldest part of a forest amongst the veteran oak trees.
Sickness spirits – These spirits are tied to the Death Rune and tend to gather on the spirit plane close to bodies of the recently dead.
Curse spirits – These spirits are tied to the Disorder Rune and tend to be found at sites of great disaster and misfortune.
Good stuff, thanks for that!
There are two significant gaps in the shamanism rules, sorry to keep harping on about this.
The first one is the biggie: how, game-mechanically, do shamans go about acquiring new spirits? A player in my game started out with the basic one Intensity 2 spirit, what does he need to do to get more? The obvious answer is, "discorporate and go looking around the spirit plane and see what he can find", but that's not a great answer. I don't want to run a solo game session that no-one else takes part in, and it's dramatically unsatisfying if he ends up dying while trying to get hold of the basic tools of his trade - a bit like the old Survival Roll in Traveller - I would be equally unimpressed if the rules for learning a new Grimoire or increasing Manipulation skill included a percentage chance of death. After all, according to Greg's Arcane Lore, learning a Grimoire requires a Heroquest to the Essence Plane to touch the Grimoire's Node.
Secondly, what can you do with internalised elementals? For example, how big does an Air Elemental have to be in order that the shaman can fly? POW equal to SIZ? X points of SIZ per Intensity?
There are two significant gaps in the shamanism rules, sorry to keep harping on about this.
The first one is the biggie: how, game-mechanically, do shamans go about acquiring new spirits? A player in my game started out with the basic one Intensity 2 spirit, what does he need to do to get more? The obvious answer is, "discorporate and go looking around the spirit plane and see what he can find", but that's not a great answer. I don't want to run a solo game session that no-one else takes part in, and it's dramatically unsatisfying if he ends up dying while trying to get hold of the basic tools of his trade - a bit like the old Survival Roll in Traveller - I would be equally unimpressed if the rules for learning a new Grimoire or increasing Manipulation skill included a percentage chance of death. After all, according to Greg's Arcane Lore, learning a Grimoire requires a Heroquest to the Essence Plane to touch the Grimoire's Node.
Secondly, what can you do with internalised elementals? For example, how big does an Air Elemental have to be in order that the shaman can fly? POW equal to SIZ? X points of SIZ per Intensity?
daxos232 said:
Same here. I think we need a FREE, Shamans rules clarification. It would be better if the spirits just came to him in ritual.(I don't have my books with me but i think this is true in the case of ancestors). I also think it would be better, if the stats block of spirits tell you exactly what you get from using a spirit and what can the spirit do on its own under your control as a monster.
Loz
Mongoose
To help answer this question, I'm going to quote the sections on Locating and Binding spirits from the RQII rules.
Neither method of gaining a spirit's aid, whether bound or negotiated, results in the shaman's dying if he is unsuccessful. This is the advantage shaman have over others who might gain access to the spirit plane. If the shaman is unsuccessful in spirit combat, or negotiations, he might be thrown off the spirit plane or the spirit might simply wander off, grumbling as it goes; but it doesn't result in death. Consider the task of negotiating or binding a spirit a sheer battle of wills and personalities. If the shaman loses, perhaps he has to perform a task for the spirit in penance - and this could form a neat adventure hook in the campaign.
'Okay Catweazle... tell me why it is why have to go and slaughter the trolls of Iron Hill again?'
'Oh... I... ummm... tried to bind the Great Oak spirit and he... um... well, beat me. I'm now oathbound to free the Sycamore spirit of Iron Hill and, because you lot wanted me to bind the Great Oak spirit, I agreed.'
'Bugger.'
I do take Phil's point about not wanting to have solo sessions that deny other players a look-in whilst the shaman goes off to bind a particular spirit: but is this any different to how a divine cultist, in a party of shamans, or another party with mixed magic types, might go and potentially HeroQuest or place himself at his cult's bidding in order to gain some favour or magic? Such circumstances always arise and can be handled in downtime to help minimise disruption or other characters being left out. There is also nothing to prevent a shaman of appropriate rank taking others onto the spirit plane to aid in the quest - just as HeroQuesters can take followers to provide aid in the different stages.
I was going by this, from the Spirit Combat section:Loz said:
Since the shaman is discorporated and away from his body, he can't be posessed so the only outcome listed is death. It had occurred to me that the shaman could plead for his life and offer some service in recompense for attempting to bind the spirit, I wouldn't have just killed the character like that, but them's the RAW, and something needs to be done about it, because not all GMs are the kind that think outside the book.RQ2 p142 said:
Mongoose Pete
Mongoose
You are being too literal again. The operative word in the quote is may.PhilHibbs said:
As Loz pointed out, defeat doesn't necessitate death. There are plenty of things a spirit can do, the number one being simply to let the shaman go. Besides which, just because he has travelled a little way on the spirit plane it doesn't mean he cannot be possessed. Its more a question of whether the GM wishes to use this as a roleplaying opportunity.PhilHibbs said:
It says may, not must. Not all GMs go out of their way to misinterpret the spirit of the rules or cast away common sense either.
Deleriad
Mongoose
Though I haven't fully put it to the test yet I've approached this from a functional perspective in comparison with divine magic and sorcery. A typical order or cult might have 6-12 spells in total, therefore I figure a shaman of a tradition probably has access to 6-12 spirit effects. I would then write that out like this:
Cactus spirits: AP enhancement; immune to thirst
Desert fox spirits: Stealth enhancement; Perception enhancement
Sandworm spirits: trait burrowing; trait: only needs to breathe once per hour.
Guardian spirits
Salamanders (immune to fire, can fly)
Ancestors
I would generally roleplay the gaining of an ancestor, the rest I would just charge IR (1 IR per intensity) and some downtime. In the genealogy there the shaman has access to 6 types of spirits with 10 different effects in total. Remembering that the Fetch can discoporate opponents as well, that gives the shaman a battery of effects. That one is not a blasting people to death from range but a fetch against an unprepared foe is lethal.
Cactus spirits: AP enhancement; immune to thirst
Desert fox spirits: Stealth enhancement; Perception enhancement
Sandworm spirits: trait burrowing; trait: only needs to breathe once per hour.
Guardian spirits
Salamanders (immune to fire, can fly)
Ancestors
I would generally roleplay the gaining of an ancestor, the rest I would just charge IR (1 IR per intensity) and some downtime. In the genealogy there the shaman has access to 6 types of spirits with 10 different effects in total. Remembering that the Fetch can discoporate opponents as well, that gives the shaman a battery of effects. That one is not a blasting people to death from range but a fetch against an unprepared foe is lethal.
While I do appreciate the effort Loz and some of the other staff put into answerin questions on the uses, abuses and limits of spirits and spirit magic I continue to think that it could do with a fresh explanation/discussion, from FIRST PRINCIPLES.
It is different to the other types of magic and possibly requires a significantly more "narrative" GM approach than the other forms of magic. I know I feel I need more discursive help getting into the appropriate mindspace to comprehend those particular rules and I et the impression others are in a similar position.
Sorry for the shouting, and hope these thoughts help,
Harshlax
It is different to the other types of magic and possibly requires a significantly more "narrative" GM approach than the other forms of magic. I know I feel I need more discursive help getting into the appropriate mindspace to comprehend those particular rules and I et the impression others are in a similar position.
Sorry for the shouting, and hope these thoughts help,
Harshlax
I get the impression that the Spirit Magic rules can be great fun. But right now it's suffering from the "no-one understands it" problem that Sorcery had when it was first introduced in RQ3 (and there, I hope, the similarity ends as the RQ3 Sorcery rules turned out to be not that great, even when you did work them out, although I did have some rollicking fun with my troll and duck sorcerors).
I have just updated the information on additional spirit types and posted it on the Wiki:
http://mrqwiki.com/wiki/index.php/MRQ2SpiritMagic
I hope you all find it useful as a reference guide to spirit types.
As far as gaining additional spirits goes then it could be reduced to a game mechanic in down time just like learning spells and training is done. Here's my take on it, pretty much typed as it flows from my head 'as is' (so feel free to comment and pick holes)
I would allow a shaman to use Improvement Rolls to seek out a spirit, maybe set at one IR for each Intensity he seeks (you could use the 'Learning Common Magic Spells' table on p.107 Core rules but read magnitude as the spirits Intensity instead). First he would need to detail the kind of spirit he was hoping to find and locate a suitable spot to do so. This may involve suitable Lore (Regional) and Spirit Walking rolls. He may gain cultural bonuses to these rolls if he is locating a suitable tribal/cultural appropriate spirit (e.g. A Kolat shaman would gain say a +20% bonus to find air elementals, but no bonus at all for darkness elementals and a -20% for locating moon elementals).
Very specific and unusual requirements may also involve further penalties to his roll to locate where such spirits may be found. Thus it may take several 'down time' sessions to find the right spot to locate such a rare spirit.
Next he would discorporate and seek out a suitable spirit using his Spirit Walking skill. The degree of his success would indicate just how well the spirit he locates matches his requirements. A critical would be a perfect match, a success indicates how close the spirit matches his requirements.
So a shaman with a 90% Spirit Walking skill could locate the perfect spirit for his requirements on a critical roll of 01-05. If, however, he rolled say 85 then this would still be a very good roll and the spirit would be very similar to his requirements, perhaps its POW was a little lower, it's Intensity was a point or two less or it lacked a skill or spell he was hoping for. If, however, he rolled an 06, then this results in him finding the correct type of spirit (as its still a success) but it would be a randomly generated one that probably did not match his requirements particularly well. A middling roll of, say, 45 would locate a spirit about half way to his requirements. Failure means he does not find a suitable spirit at all and a Fumble could be a dangerous encounter with a random malevolent spirit.
The shaman would then need to negotiate with the spirit (usually an opposed test of suitable skills, such as Influence versus Persistence) or control it using Spirit Binding as appropriate to his needs.
Phew! I need to lie down in a dark place for a while now! :lol: :wink:
http://mrqwiki.com/wiki/index.php/MRQ2SpiritMagic
I hope you all find it useful as a reference guide to spirit types.
As far as gaining additional spirits goes then it could be reduced to a game mechanic in down time just like learning spells and training is done. Here's my take on it, pretty much typed as it flows from my head 'as is' (so feel free to comment and pick holes)
I would allow a shaman to use Improvement Rolls to seek out a spirit, maybe set at one IR for each Intensity he seeks (you could use the 'Learning Common Magic Spells' table on p.107 Core rules but read magnitude as the spirits Intensity instead). First he would need to detail the kind of spirit he was hoping to find and locate a suitable spot to do so. This may involve suitable Lore (Regional) and Spirit Walking rolls. He may gain cultural bonuses to these rolls if he is locating a suitable tribal/cultural appropriate spirit (e.g. A Kolat shaman would gain say a +20% bonus to find air elementals, but no bonus at all for darkness elementals and a -20% for locating moon elementals).
Very specific and unusual requirements may also involve further penalties to his roll to locate where such spirits may be found. Thus it may take several 'down time' sessions to find the right spot to locate such a rare spirit.
Next he would discorporate and seek out a suitable spirit using his Spirit Walking skill. The degree of his success would indicate just how well the spirit he locates matches his requirements. A critical would be a perfect match, a success indicates how close the spirit matches his requirements.
So a shaman with a 90% Spirit Walking skill could locate the perfect spirit for his requirements on a critical roll of 01-05. If, however, he rolled say 85 then this would still be a very good roll and the spirit would be very similar to his requirements, perhaps its POW was a little lower, it's Intensity was a point or two less or it lacked a skill or spell he was hoping for. If, however, he rolled an 06, then this results in him finding the correct type of spirit (as its still a success) but it would be a randomly generated one that probably did not match his requirements particularly well. A middling roll of, say, 45 would locate a spirit about half way to his requirements. Failure means he does not find a suitable spirit at all and a Fumble could be a dangerous encounter with a random malevolent spirit.
The shaman would then need to negotiate with the spirit (usually an opposed test of suitable skills, such as Influence versus Persistence) or control it using Spirit Binding as appropriate to his needs.
Phew! I need to lie down in a dark place for a while now! :lol: :wink:
PhilHibbs said:
I would run it as for a sylphs attack. A sylph/air elemental (or number of sylphs combined as per the Kolat cults 'Good Friends') can pick up and move a number of SIZ points equal to or less than its STR. It's movement is 20m per round.
This means you have to roll the elementals other physical characteristics as well to see if its big enough for the job, even though the shaman is internalising it. A slightly above average 3 cubic metre/Intensity air or water elemental is just about strong enough to carry an average SIZ 13 human. A 2 cubic metre earth elemental is also usually strong enough as well.
The only oddity is that elemental spirits have different POW rolls to 'physical' elementals. You could simply rule that water and air elementals have an effective STR of POW x 2 for carrying people and an earth elemental has a STR of POW+18. This is based on the correlation of the Core rules characteristics and avoids having to roll all the elementals physical characteristics every time.
languagegeek
Mongoose
Mongoose Pete said:
That's perhaps a bit harsh. My reading of that sentence was similar to PhilHibbs': At this point the loser can automatically be either... / At this point the loser will have one of the following options occur.
The first two meanings I get for "may" from dictionary.com
My understanding of the statement was sense 2. To clarify the sentence, I would suggest something like: "At this point the loser may automatically be either Possessed (if mortal) ... Dissipated (destroyed), or there may be no effect other than the failure of the attempt."
It seems that hinging an important rule like this on the interpretation of the word "may" (which is in flux or on the way out in many variants of English anyway) is not sufficiently clear.
