Shadow Fighters - Can they do THIS?

[Shade of Black]

During one of my games the question of "Can Shadow Fighters use the double move of the racial trait that shadows posses" I argued in the favor of the Shadows since there is no real reason why they wouldn't but one of the guys brought up the thing about fighters not being able to use any special actions and stubbornly refused to move. I tried to explain that this was not a special action but his victory depended on me not being able to do this so you know how it goes. I was looking to get some answers here to back up either side, Thanks in Advance!

 

[Foxmeister]

The rule states "Shadow Ships" and "Shadow Scouts" may do this. Note the capitalization, because there are shadow "vessels" called "Shadow Ships" and "Shadow Scouts" and a "Shadow Fighter" is neither of those.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Shade of Black]

The rule states "Shadow Ships" and "Shadow Scouts" may do this. Note the capitalization, because there are shadow "vessels" called "Shadow Ships" and "Shadow Scouts" and a "Shadow Fighter" is neither of those.

Regards,

Dave

Well if thats true what about the Shadow Stalker? It is not mentioned in the description but is a Shadow Vessel, also fighters are treated as ships in all respects with a few exceptions so can be referred to as a vessel. I always thought it was a typo.

 

[Foxmeister]

Actually, it's "Shadow Stalker (Shadow Scout Variant)", so it's still a "Shadow Scout" from that perspective IMHO.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Shade of Black]

Actually, it's "Shadow Stalker (Shadow Scout Variant)", so it's still a "Shadow Scout" from that perspective IMHO.

Regards,

Dave

That's what I thought too but it is not in fact a "Shadow Scout", it is a "Shadow Stalker". If the text describing its origins was in not a parenthesis then I would have come to that conclusion as well. I almost thought the Young and Old Shadow Ship would not benefit until I realized that they are both named "Shadow Ship" with the text in parentheses to tell them apart (other than the stat block)

 

[armbarred]

From a mechanics stand point thought, a variant has the same rules unless noted.

So a Shadow Stalker is considered a Shadow Scout with a slightly different weapons and trait load out, but the chassis is the same.

So Shadow Scouts, Shadow Stalkers, and Shadow Ships all benefit from the speed. Another point on the rules wording, is: Shadow vessels are supremely agile... is really merely a descriptor and does not discuss the actual mechanic of the rule. The next sentence starts the actual mechanic description, and does not list fighters.

 

[Shade of Black]

From a mechanics stand point thought, a variant has the same rules unless noted.

Not meaning to split hairs but on what page is this mentioned, I wanna be able to quote this if this question comes up again.

 

[armbarred]

It's not printed. It's more a process of common sense and elimination/comparison. If a variant has any different special rules they're listed.

 

[Shade of Black]

It's not printed. It's more a process of common sense and elimination/comparison. If a variant has any different special rules they're listed.

So its not a actual rule.

This is the first time I have seen that would matter if it was a variant or not. Frankly I am perfectly fine with the Stalker not having the double movement as I don't use them anyway. However the fighters I do use on occasion and would like to see them benefit from it. I'm still of the mind it might be a copy/paste mistake or it could be exactly as RAW dictates, this however remains to be seen.

 

[Foxmeister]

I think the whole Shadow Stalker thing is a completely different issue, but why would a battle level ship be specifically disallowed this rule if the raid , armaggedon, and war level ships all have it.

What is pretty cut and dry to me though is that a shadow fighter is neither a "Shadow Ship", nor a "Shadow Scout" and therefore it does not benefit from the "Superb Manoeuverability" rule. If it did, on the basis that it is a ship from the Shadow race, there would be no point picking out these two titles and it would just say "shadow vessels".

Argue that it is a "typo" if you wish, but IMHO RAW should always stand unless ruled otherwise from Mongoose officialdom.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Shade of Black]

I think the whole Shadow Stalker thing is a completely different issue, but why would a battle level ship be specifically disallowed this rule if the raid , armaggedon, and war level ships all have it.

I Dunno the Stalker sucks anyway so its not that much of a surprise to me.

What is pretty cut and dry to me though is that a shadow fighter is neither a "Shadow Ship", nor a "Shadow Scout" and therefore it does not benefit from the "Superb Maneuverability" rule. If it did, on the basis that it is a ship from the Shadow race, there would be no point picking out these two titles and it would just say "shadow vessels".

This is sadly true, I am however hoping that if the Stalker will be included the Fighters will also, as we all know they suck and this would help make them a bit better.

Argue that it is a "typo" if you wish, but IMHO RAW should always stand unless ruled otherwise from Mongoose officialdom.

Yes since I did not make the game (or indeed have anything to do with it at all even remotely) I would value a statement from mongoose. If one of them happened to see this thread and answer, for better or worse I would go with their suggestion.

 

[Greg Smith]

If you have to have a ruling from Mongoose, post in the rulesmasters forum, or PM msprange.

 

[Burger]

The rules as stated don't allow the Stalker to do it. But it's quite obviously an omission from the Superb Manouverability section. Any opponent who doesn't let you do it with a Stalker needs a good slapping.

 

[MongooseMatt]

The Stalker can, Fighters can't.