Serentity/Firefly 'verse using MGT
- Thread starter GamerDude
- Start date
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
evo said:
Apology accepted.
Contrary points of view, presented in a robust fashion, can sometimes appear insulting, perhaps especially in translation. The key is to be aware that it is the ideas that are being questioned, not the fans.
Egil
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
carandol said:
Two things here.
Firstly, the Traveller MgT system as such is not derivative, as it is a gaming system, not a universe in itself, and that system can be used in a variety of different universes.
Secondly, the 3I universe clearly draws very heavily on "classic" SF, the authors you mention and many others beside. However, many of these authors have very different takes on the future (and at time present different alternatives in different fictions). I think that creates a much broader pool of ideas to draw upon than (though, it could be argued, contributes to some of the mad variety in the 3I (I like that, but it is not to everyone's taste)) than that of Serenity/Firefly.
I don't see Sernity/Firefly as a bad background, per se, just a limited and unimaginative one. The fun things in the series and movie are usually in spite of the setting, not because of it.
As I said in my first post on this thread, rather than creating a MgT-Serinity conversion, why not write a better "future history"?
Egil
Edited for clarity
Firefly / Serenity is nice entertainment, but definitely not science fiction.
I have the impression that it becomes necessary to introduce a new term,
"space fiction", to replace the "science fiction" in the descriptions of all
those media and gaming universes where ideas from science fiction (beam
weapons, starships, etc.) are used, but there is otherwise not even a re-
mote connection with any of the sciences. I am growing a bit tired of rea-
ding "science" on packages which contain no science at all, or treat it in a
way no person interested in science, professional or amateur, could find
remotely plausible.
I have the impression that it becomes necessary to introduce a new term,
"space fiction", to replace the "science fiction" in the descriptions of all
those media and gaming universes where ideas from science fiction (beam
weapons, starships, etc.) are used, but there is otherwise not even a re-
mote connection with any of the sciences. I am growing a bit tired of rea-
ding "science" on packages which contain no science at all, or treat it in a
way no person interested in science, professional or amateur, could find
remotely plausible.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Mongoose
rust said:
You might be on to something here.
Rather depressingly, for some years libraries and most bookshops here have put Science Fiction books and Fantasy books together, mixed up on the same shelves (if you are lucky they may be in author alphabetical order) with no distinction between genres.
Egil
C
Claybor
Guest
These games are not books of science. They are science 'fiction'. Therefore they are peoples imagined ideas of how science behaves in 'their' universe. If you want more science in your fiction you go right ahead, but most people play games (and watch tv/movies) to have fun not to learn science.
fic·tion/ˈfikSHən/Noun1. Prose literature, esp. short stories and novels, about imaginary events and people.
2. Invention or fabrication as opposed to fact
fic·tion/ˈfikSHən/Noun1. Prose literature, esp. short stories and novels, about imaginary events and people.
2. Invention or fabrication as opposed to fact
Yeah, and science fiction was originally fiction that experimented with unreal or unimaginable science.
Serenity/firefly is a western drama, that happens to be set in space. You could do almost all of the story arcs on one planet, without space or spaceships ever coming into it. Do you want to try and do... The moon is a harsh mistress without changing the section but keeping everything else intact?
I mean look, lets take an episode:
The gang arrive at a place, and the companion goes off to meet a client.
Mal goes to a party to meet a different kind of client.
Mal offends companions client.
Mal gets into a duel.
Mal wins duel, gets a job from his client.
The gang leaves the location.
Does that story need a science fiction setting to work?
Serenity/firefly is a western drama, that happens to be set in space. You could do almost all of the story arcs on one planet, without space or spaceships ever coming into it. Do you want to try and do... The moon is a harsh mistress without changing the section but keeping everything else intact?
I mean look, lets take an episode:
The gang arrive at a place, and the companion goes off to meet a client.
Mal goes to a party to meet a different kind of client.
Mal offends companions client.
Mal gets into a duel.
Mal wins duel, gets a job from his client.
The gang leaves the location.
Does that story need a science fiction setting to work?
C
Claybor
Guest
Yet there is no doubt that it is science fiction. It takes place in a future society that obviously has some science that is well beyond our current capability, covering the science end of it, and I don't think anyone disputes that it's fiction.
Whether or not someone likes it or not or thinks there is better out there is purely an opinion, and opinions are not right or wrong they just are.
Whether or not someone likes it or not or thinks there is better out there is purely an opinion, and opinions are not right or wrong they just are.
DFW said:
Well that just strengthens my point then
To claybor:
Except it doesn't rely on those things to tell it's stories, unlike science fiction. It's space fantasy. There is a difference.
And I'm not saying I don't like it. I do. But it's background isn't great, and proper sci-fi it ain't.
True, but there is an important difference between "unreal" or "unimagi-barnest2 said:
nable" (= fictional) science and completely ignored or plain wrong science.
When the "science" part of "science fiction" has no influence at all on the
story, it is simply "fiction", and to call it "science fiction" because the orcs
have laser rifles or the cowboy rides on a robot horse is, well ...
C
Claybor
Guest
Space travel.
Space combat.
Terraforming of worlds.
Laser weapons.
FTL communications.
Just a small sampling of serenity/firefly science/technology.
Science that is beyond our capabilities yet plausible?
I agree it could be considered a sub genre, but it still fits the science fiction label 100%.
Space combat.
Terraforming of worlds.
Laser weapons.
FTL communications.
Just a small sampling of serenity/firefly science/technology.
Science that is beyond our capabilities yet plausible?
I agree it could be considered a sub genre, but it still fits the science fiction label 100%.
Claybor said:
Please tell me when any of these are relied on for the story:
Space travel- could be any other sort of travel
Terraforming- it's completely in the background. You could just have different nations.
laser weapons- the lassiter could easily just be replaced by any other fancy weapon, or even just a vase or some such (well, not a vase, that would break too easily. But you see my point)
FTL comms- i'm not sure I agree with this point. DO they ever communicate in real time with someone when they aren't near a planet?
This is just the presence of futuristic technology, but not a sign that anyClaybor said:
kind of science happens during the story or has any influence on the sto-
ry. If you would put Gawain and Lancelot on flying robot horses and give
them flamelances, this would not turn the Arthurian universe into science
fiction.
I DO NOT use any FTL comms in either settings of Traveller or Cstars. In Traveller there are the mail deliveries for inter-system comms.
In Cstars, which deals with a game in our own Sol system, I have same-as-light comms, so an e-mail/instant messenger like comm system can be made to each planet with a delay at minutes for the furthest distances (Vid-calls couldnt work for minute+ delays).
I also have, as in the setting description, an interplanetary internet, with different nets on each world, probably set as Ship Libraries but larger.
In Cstars, which deals with a game in our own Sol system, I have same-as-light comms, so an e-mail/instant messenger like comm system can be made to each planet with a delay at minutes for the furthest distances (Vid-calls couldnt work for minute+ delays).
I also have, as in the setting description, an interplanetary internet, with different nets on each world, probably set as Ship Libraries but larger.
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
I don't, I have the two companions, the Serenity Movie guide, all the comics, and some stuff with Joss Whedon interviews, everything for the Serenity RPG (book and paperback).evo said:According to Quantum Mechanix, and the Arc of the 'Verse, there are 5 systems and 250 terraformed planets and moon. The "one system and 30 planets" was only the emerged part of the iceberg. Do not limit yourself to what you saw in the series. It makes a bigger playground.
Besides, what's the difference between having "30 worlds in one system" and "250 worlds in five systems"? Still beyond the bounds of any reasonable scientific theory. In fact, that map shows a central solar system with other solar systems orbitng it (yes, orbital lines, arrows pointing direction of orbit, etc).
Everything that's a "world" in Joss' setting was terraformed earth habitable. Yeah right.
Hmm... definitely Science Fiction! Just because there are cows, horses and slug pistols don't make it not so!
Lets see, from what I recall -> they travel in spaceships... wear space suits (with magnetic soles?)... use 3D neural imagers... have technology based 'floaty islands'... space stations (with robotic machinery)... heat shielding... atmo engines... life support... air locks and decompression options... space shuttles (and even a star wars ship IIRC!)... sonic weapons... 'levitating' trains...
Sure, it also has elements of fantasy (as does most Sci-Fi)... though at least they got the no sound transmission in space thing right (one of my pet peeves). And there is no FTL travel or FTL comms (though realtime like radio transmissions - explained in the commentary as actually having delays which were simply not shown - and in several episodes that actually appear to exist). 'Course, one has to accept multi-year (decade+) interstellar travel of sizeable populations (though one could go with embryo transport as well...).
The terra-forming bit might be a bit over the top... but not totally inconceivable actually (other than the gravity part - but they could also be extremely dense bodies... we just don't know how common such things might or might not be).
For those who think science fiction must be 'hard science', the greatest aberrations I recall are the 'gravitics' and 'psionics'. Unlike Traveller, which tosses in FTL (jump) tech, aliens (several of the uplifted household pet variety...) and mass independent physics!
Oh, and multiple stars orbiting a central star or system of stars actually do exist. I believe the current max is six stars (in various orbital arrangements - typically involving multiple binaries...) and there are quite a number of five star systems known. And we knew of over 170 moons in our single star system circa 2009! (Though most would not hold a terraformed atmo from any current extrapolated tech...).
Ultimately, like any entertaining fiction, it revolves around people which the audience can relate to in some fashion. And, like all such things, has fans and critics!
Lets see, from what I recall -> they travel in spaceships... wear space suits (with magnetic soles?)... use 3D neural imagers... have technology based 'floaty islands'... space stations (with robotic machinery)... heat shielding... atmo engines... life support... air locks and decompression options... space shuttles (and even a star wars ship IIRC!)... sonic weapons... 'levitating' trains...
Sure, it also has elements of fantasy (as does most Sci-Fi)... though at least they got the no sound transmission in space thing right (one of my pet peeves). And there is no FTL travel or FTL comms (though realtime like radio transmissions - explained in the commentary as actually having delays which were simply not shown - and in several episodes that actually appear to exist). 'Course, one has to accept multi-year (decade+) interstellar travel of sizeable populations (though one could go with embryo transport as well...).
The terra-forming bit might be a bit over the top... but not totally inconceivable actually (other than the gravity part - but they could also be extremely dense bodies... we just don't know how common such things might or might not be).
For those who think science fiction must be 'hard science', the greatest aberrations I recall are the 'gravitics' and 'psionics'. Unlike Traveller, which tosses in FTL (jump) tech, aliens (several of the uplifted household pet variety...) and mass independent physics!
Oh, and multiple stars orbiting a central star or system of stars actually do exist. I believe the current max is six stars (in various orbital arrangements - typically involving multiple binaries...) and there are quite a number of five star systems known. And we knew of over 170 moons in our single star system circa 2009! (Though most would not hold a terraformed atmo from any current extrapolated tech...).
Ultimately, like any entertaining fiction, it revolves around people which the audience can relate to in some fashion. And, like all such things, has fans and critics!
