Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
Truly Mongoose are friends of the Hive Federationmsprange said:Gruffty the Hiver said:
Bingo
Scouts Book from Mongoose ?
- Thread starter captainjack23
- Start date
spinwardpirate
Mongoose
Off the top of my head... I can think of one surveyor who died when a rogue wave capsized his survey launch... and there was a woman on one of our survey ships who lost a leg in a shark attack.msprange said:
Gruffty the Hiver said:Truly Mongoose are friends of the Hive Federation
Well, wait until you see when we get round to the Hivers book before you say that. With an average of one Traveller book a month, it will take a while. . .
That said, we have already built the framework of the format for the alien books, and I think you will like them
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
So, Mongoose is going to separate out Scouts and the World Builders Handbook (or whatever you call it)?
Mongoose has a REAL chance here to fix one of the most broken areas of Traveller. CT Book 6 made things worse, not better regarding world generation. I know a lot of people could care less about the real science, but those of us that do care REALLY care that it be right (or at least believable).
I wish you the best of luck and if you need people to help/playtest this little gem, I know a few who hang our around here (ME ME!) :wink:
Mongoose has a REAL chance here to fix one of the most broken areas of Traveller. CT Book 6 made things worse, not better regarding world generation. I know a lot of people could care less about the real science, but those of us that do care REALLY care that it be right (or at least believable).
I wish you the best of luck and if you need people to help/playtest this little gem, I know a few who hang our around here (ME ME!) :wink:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well that easy to answer.......get scientists to be part of the dev team
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I know of at least one that might be interested (not me, but I'm interested too).
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thats a "ditto" for me as well (know, not that Im a scientist).
Border Reiver
Mongoose
Yup. Nice handy charts and tables, simple results. Playability over realism but still carrying a veneer of hard science.
I'd like to see how Mongoose does with it.
If they go for the reasonably realistic, how will that compare to the already widely accepted OTU UWP's ?
I think that the ordinary 'standard' method should be 'basic'
and the detailed realistic should be optional without care or regard to the old OTU worlds. I also think that future supplements should go with fairly general descriptions of a world's society, etc., that can be used in pretty much any general background, instead instead of being numbers that are set in stone....
It'd be a shame if the OTU becomes a set of shackles to new improved methods and ideas.
If they go for the reasonably realistic, how will that compare to the already widely accepted OTU UWP's ?
I think that the ordinary 'standard' method should be 'basic'
and the detailed realistic should be optional without care or regard to the old OTU worlds. I also think that future supplements should go with fairly general descriptions of a world's society, etc., that can be used in pretty much any general background, instead instead of being numbers that are set in stone....
It'd be a shame if the OTU becomes a set of shackles to new improved methods and ideas.
Since the MGT core rules are not meant to be used for the OTU only,
and since many of the other possible settings will almost require mo-
re realistic worlds, I also hope very much that the OTU will not be
the model for world generation - otherwise I would not be able to
use the system for my setting.
and since many of the other possible settings will almost require mo-
re realistic worlds, I also hope very much that the OTU will not be
the model for world generation - otherwise I would not be able to
use the system for my setting.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Ishmael said:
While I agree there is room for change, I also do not want to see a lot of change just for the sake of change. If it makes sense, great. But if it is being changed out for something that is of no more value then the original then I question the need to change.
Daniel
Gruffty the Hiver
Banded Mongoose
... and a HIVER to write the Hiver book (hinthinthintRoger Calver said:Well that easy to answer.......get scientists to be part of the dev team
) ... :lol: :lol:rust said:
I think the best of both worlds would be a more complete and flexible system for generating systems from scratch, with an option to use the classic UWP stats as a starting point.
Another point is that realism isn't necessarily the only goal GMs will have in mind. The basic system in the core rules has basic options for hard science and also for space opera variations and I'd hope that an expanded system would be even more 'tunable'.
Simon Hibbs
I never had any problem with the 'physical' output; aka world size/atm/hyd, etc.
..and I'm not knowledgable enough to worry about stellar types and the like. There is enough info on the 'net to generate as much accurate detail as you can stand about those sort of characteristics..
My concern is the social side of the UWP. The standard method makes too many wacky worlds that make little sense. I feel that this is because starport type is pure random without any modifiers relating to pop or trade or habitability. This allows starport "A" and zero population even. Or starport "X" right in the middle of a trade route and a population in the billions.
Starport type should be linked to population in some fashion.
The same for population...
It is pure random without modifiers based on how nice the place is to live. That gives us garden worlds with no people and a trillion people on an airless rockball right next to it. People are lazy and cheap..they won't settle where its hard work or expensive to live. I think pop should be linked to atm and hyd.
Tech would change simply because the starport type, pop and how hard it is to live somewhere are the main DM's for determining tech level with Staport being the biggest modifier ( hence high tech, lo-pop worlds )
I also advocate not including 'taint' in the atm during uwp generating, but afterwards based on other things or as a ref desires...having the atm value following atm surface pressure just makes other detailing easier.
The rest is okay as far as I'm concerned, but these two changes would not give you anything like the OTU sectors at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
How about the core rules use the old fashioned UWP
and the Scouts book use something better....both can be used..even side by side in a sector.
I know many people are fine with the ordinary uwp rules, and say the wackiness stimulates the imagination as you have to come up with ways to explain the wackiness...but I'd rather come up with my own wackiness without being forced into it by the rules themselves.
I just hate the idea of canon becoming a straight-jacket to the game and preventing better, newer things from being made...
..and I'm not knowledgable enough to worry about stellar types and the like. There is enough info on the 'net to generate as much accurate detail as you can stand about those sort of characteristics..
My concern is the social side of the UWP. The standard method makes too many wacky worlds that make little sense. I feel that this is because starport type is pure random without any modifiers relating to pop or trade or habitability. This allows starport "A" and zero population even. Or starport "X" right in the middle of a trade route and a population in the billions.
Starport type should be linked to population in some fashion.
The same for population...
It is pure random without modifiers based on how nice the place is to live. That gives us garden worlds with no people and a trillion people on an airless rockball right next to it. People are lazy and cheap..they won't settle where its hard work or expensive to live. I think pop should be linked to atm and hyd.
Tech would change simply because the starport type, pop and how hard it is to live somewhere are the main DM's for determining tech level with Staport being the biggest modifier ( hence high tech, lo-pop worlds )
I also advocate not including 'taint' in the atm during uwp generating, but afterwards based on other things or as a ref desires...having the atm value following atm surface pressure just makes other detailing easier.
The rest is okay as far as I'm concerned, but these two changes would not give you anything like the OTU sectors at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
How about the core rules use the old fashioned UWP
and the Scouts book use something better....both can be used..even side by side in a sector.
I know many people are fine with the ordinary uwp rules, and say the wackiness stimulates the imagination as you have to come up with ways to explain the wackiness...but I'd rather come up with my own wackiness without being forced into it by the rules themselves.
I just hate the idea of canon becoming a straight-jacket to the game and preventing better, newer things from being made...
What I'd like to see in a worldgen procedure is a general list of what solid and gaseous elements are likely to be found on a world, based on world size, world density, and atmo density.
That would go a long way in helping to know what players need to deal with on the surface.
I've pulled a few things from the Internet but it would be nice to have an overview developed by something other than my non-scientific brain's SWAGs.
That would go a long way in helping to know what players need to deal with on the surface.
I've pulled a few things from the Internet but it would be nice to have an overview developed by something other than my non-scientific brain's SWAGs.
Years ago, on a distant Mailing list, the infamous TML, this discussion reared it's head.
Jim Vassilakos took these musings and wired them up as an alternate system for generating UWPs in his Galactic Software package.
So I ripped it's text, which I present here for your edification.
Variant Main World Generation System for Traveller
--------------------------------------------------
1. World Size. Roll 2d6-2.
2. Atmosphere. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if size=0, atmos=0.
confine range to 0-F.
3. Hydrographics. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if atmos is 1 or less, DM -4
if size is 1 or less, hydro=0
if atmosphere is A-C, DM -4
if atmosphere is E, DM -2
confine range to 0-A
4. Indigenous Life. Roll d12-1 twice, take lower of two rolls
if atmos is 1 or less, then life = 0
if atmos is A-C, DM -6
if hydro = 0, DM -4
if life is A-B, 50% chance of DM +2
confine range 0-D
if life is D, conduct eco-collapse:
atmos=C
hydro, DM -4
confine hydro 0+
Life Stat Explained
-------------------
0: Sterile: No indigenous life. Atmosphere is not breathable
without substantial eco-engineering.
1: Proto-cellular: Indigenous life consisted of amino acids
and/or various primitive replicators. These may have
been wiped out by transplanted organisms.
2: Single-cellular: Transplants would have taken over.
3: Multi-cellular: Transplants would have taken over.
4: Complex microscopic: Lots of colorful ooze. Transplants
would have taken over for the most part, however, there
might be some indigenous bacteria still competing.
5: Macroscopic: Mainly small indigenous sea-life which would
be competing along side whatever transplants are
present.
6: Primitive ecosystem: Oceans are teaming with indigenous
organisms, but land-based life is just carving out its
niche. Transplants may have halted the advance of
indigenous life, assuming the two are bio-compatible.
7: Teaming ecosystem: Water/Land/Air-based herbivores and
predators. Transplants would have a hard time competing
in such an advanced ecosystem. Bio-compatibility would
be an important issue.
8: Proto-sentient: Tool-fabrication, mastery of fire.
9: Sentient: Agriculture, language, symbology.
A: Non-spacefaring: Planet may be a biological protectorate
(ala the Prime Directive).
B: Early Spacefaring: Indigenous race may have been given
technology or may even have been genetically uplifted.
C: Cataclysm: Result of either war, plague, or minor
environmental mismanagement. Survivors are in a state
of slow recovery.
D: Green Hell: Result of major environmental mismanagement.
World is transformed into a greenhouse.
5. Resource Level. Roll 2d6-7+Size
confine range 0-F
Resource Stat Explained
-----------------------
0: Barren
1-4: Poor: Basic chemical diversity necessary to support
indigenous life. Otherwise, no claim to fame.
5-8: Moderate: Moderate resource base capable of being
exploited for export.
9-C: Rich: Rich resource base, one of which could command
subsector-wide influence.
D+ : Extreme: Very rich resource base, one of which could
command sector-wide influence.
6. Population. Roll 2d6-2.
if size is 2 or less, DM -1
if atmosphere is 3 or less, DM -3
if atmosphere is A, DM -2
if atmosphere is B, DM -3
if atmosphere is C, DM -4
if atmosphere if greater than C, DM -2
if atmosphere is 6, DM +3
if atmosphere is 5 or 8, DM +1
if hydro=0 and atmos>3, DM -2
if life is 0, DM -2
if life is 7+, DM +2
if res is 0, DM -3
if res is 1-4, DM -1
if res is 5-8, DM +1
if res is 9-C, DM +2
if res is D+, DM +3
confine range to 0-A
6b. Population Multiplier. Roll d9.
if pop is 0, 5 in 6 chance that popmult = 0
7. Starport. Roll 2d6 (use whichever table suits the locality
but remember that high rolls result in
a lower quality starport).
if pop=0, starport=X
if pop=1, DM +2
if pop=2, DM +1
if pop is 6-9, DM -1
if pop is A, DM -2
confine range to A-X
8. Government. Roll 2d6-7+population.
if pop=0 and popmult=0 then gov=0
confine range to 0-F
9. Law Level. Roll 2d6-7+government.
if gov=0 then law=0
confine range to 0-20
10. Tech Level. Roll d6. Modify as per the standard chart
for starport, size, hydro, and pop. Modify as per
standard chart for atmosphere except for D-E range.
Modify as per law as follows:
if is law B-D, DM -1
if is law F+, DM -2
Modify as per government as follows:
if gov = 1 or 5, DM +1
if gov = 13 or 14, DM -2
if gov = 6 or 15, DM -1
if pop=0 & popmult=0 then tech=0
confine lower bound of range to 0
11. Technical Depopulation.
if hydro is 0 or A and pop is at least 6,
then tech must at least be 4.
if atmos is 4, 7 or 9,
then tech must at least be 5.
if atmos is 3 or less or A-C,
then tech must at least be 7.
if atmos is D or F and hydro is A,
then tech must at least be 7.
if tech is less than minimum requred tech then:
pop=0, popmult=0, gov=0, law=0, tech=0, starport=X
12. Trade Classifications
As per MegaTraveller rules except as follows:
Deleted: Rich, Poor, and Industrial, Nonindustrial, Non-agro
Modified: Agricultural (may include hydro 9+)
Fluid (no size restriction, atmos A-C, hydro 1+)
13. Main Export Commodity.
if res = 5+ & tech = 1+ & pop=5+ then try to assign an export
(try as many times as there are resource points, choosing the
best outcome based on tech level)
if AG, export = d5
otherwise, export = d29+4
if no export is selected, then export=0
Export Stat Explained
---------------------
Roll Tech Etc
0 None 0 -
01 1 Textiles 5 A
02 2 Wood Products 4 A
03 3 Livestock 1 A
04 4 Agro-Consumables 4 A
05 5 Pharmaceuticals 9 -
06 6 Petrochemicals 6 L
07 7 Biologicals 1 L
08 A Antimatter H -
09 B Bio-engineering D -
10 C Computers D -
11 D Industrial Crystals 5 -
12 E Electronics C -
13 F Farm Machinery 5 -
14 G Gemstones 1 -
15 H Heavy Metals 5 -
16 I Industrial Machinery 5 -
17 J Synthetic Fabric 8 -
18 K Synthetic Foods 8 -
19 L Industrial Chemicals 7 -
20 M Rare Minerals 5 -
21 N Weaponry/Armor A -
22 O Radioactives 6 -
23 P Polymers 9 -
24 Q Cybernetics C -
25 R Robots D -
26 S Starships B -
27 T Tools 5 -
28 U Underwater Equipment 7 -
29 V Vehicles/Gravitics 8 -
30 W Banking/Insurance D -
31 X Entertainment D -
32 Y Art/Publishing/News D -
33 Z Information/Research D -
Tech=X: X is the minimum tech level
Etc=A: World must be Agricultural
Etc=L: Life must = 7+
14. Determine Bases, Gas Giants, Planetoid Belts, and Travel
Codes normally.
Jim Vassilakos took these musings and wired them up as an alternate system for generating UWPs in his Galactic Software package.
So I ripped it's text, which I present here for your edification.
Variant Main World Generation System for Traveller
--------------------------------------------------
1. World Size. Roll 2d6-2.
2. Atmosphere. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if size=0, atmos=0.
confine range to 0-F.
3. Hydrographics. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if atmos is 1 or less, DM -4
if size is 1 or less, hydro=0
if atmosphere is A-C, DM -4
if atmosphere is E, DM -2
confine range to 0-A
4. Indigenous Life. Roll d12-1 twice, take lower of two rolls
if atmos is 1 or less, then life = 0
if atmos is A-C, DM -6
if hydro = 0, DM -4
if life is A-B, 50% chance of DM +2
confine range 0-D
if life is D, conduct eco-collapse:
atmos=C
hydro, DM -4
confine hydro 0+
Life Stat Explained
-------------------
0: Sterile: No indigenous life. Atmosphere is not breathable
without substantial eco-engineering.
1: Proto-cellular: Indigenous life consisted of amino acids
and/or various primitive replicators. These may have
been wiped out by transplanted organisms.
2: Single-cellular: Transplants would have taken over.
3: Multi-cellular: Transplants would have taken over.
4: Complex microscopic: Lots of colorful ooze. Transplants
would have taken over for the most part, however, there
might be some indigenous bacteria still competing.
5: Macroscopic: Mainly small indigenous sea-life which would
be competing along side whatever transplants are
present.
6: Primitive ecosystem: Oceans are teaming with indigenous
organisms, but land-based life is just carving out its
niche. Transplants may have halted the advance of
indigenous life, assuming the two are bio-compatible.
7: Teaming ecosystem: Water/Land/Air-based herbivores and
predators. Transplants would have a hard time competing
in such an advanced ecosystem. Bio-compatibility would
be an important issue.
8: Proto-sentient: Tool-fabrication, mastery of fire.
9: Sentient: Agriculture, language, symbology.
A: Non-spacefaring: Planet may be a biological protectorate
(ala the Prime Directive).
B: Early Spacefaring: Indigenous race may have been given
technology or may even have been genetically uplifted.
C: Cataclysm: Result of either war, plague, or minor
environmental mismanagement. Survivors are in a state
of slow recovery.
D: Green Hell: Result of major environmental mismanagement.
World is transformed into a greenhouse.
5. Resource Level. Roll 2d6-7+Size
confine range 0-F
Resource Stat Explained
-----------------------
0: Barren
1-4: Poor: Basic chemical diversity necessary to support
indigenous life. Otherwise, no claim to fame.
5-8: Moderate: Moderate resource base capable of being
exploited for export.
9-C: Rich: Rich resource base, one of which could command
subsector-wide influence.
D+ : Extreme: Very rich resource base, one of which could
command sector-wide influence.
6. Population. Roll 2d6-2.
if size is 2 or less, DM -1
if atmosphere is 3 or less, DM -3
if atmosphere is A, DM -2
if atmosphere is B, DM -3
if atmosphere is C, DM -4
if atmosphere if greater than C, DM -2
if atmosphere is 6, DM +3
if atmosphere is 5 or 8, DM +1
if hydro=0 and atmos>3, DM -2
if life is 0, DM -2
if life is 7+, DM +2
if res is 0, DM -3
if res is 1-4, DM -1
if res is 5-8, DM +1
if res is 9-C, DM +2
if res is D+, DM +3
confine range to 0-A
6b. Population Multiplier. Roll d9.
if pop is 0, 5 in 6 chance that popmult = 0
7. Starport. Roll 2d6 (use whichever table suits the locality
but remember that high rolls result in
a lower quality starport).
if pop=0, starport=X
if pop=1, DM +2
if pop=2, DM +1
if pop is 6-9, DM -1
if pop is A, DM -2
confine range to A-X
8. Government. Roll 2d6-7+population.
if pop=0 and popmult=0 then gov=0
confine range to 0-F
9. Law Level. Roll 2d6-7+government.
if gov=0 then law=0
confine range to 0-20
10. Tech Level. Roll d6. Modify as per the standard chart
for starport, size, hydro, and pop. Modify as per
standard chart for atmosphere except for D-E range.
Modify as per law as follows:
if is law B-D, DM -1
if is law F+, DM -2
Modify as per government as follows:
if gov = 1 or 5, DM +1
if gov = 13 or 14, DM -2
if gov = 6 or 15, DM -1
if pop=0 & popmult=0 then tech=0
confine lower bound of range to 0
11. Technical Depopulation.
if hydro is 0 or A and pop is at least 6,
then tech must at least be 4.
if atmos is 4, 7 or 9,
then tech must at least be 5.
if atmos is 3 or less or A-C,
then tech must at least be 7.
if atmos is D or F and hydro is A,
then tech must at least be 7.
if tech is less than minimum requred tech then:
pop=0, popmult=0, gov=0, law=0, tech=0, starport=X
12. Trade Classifications
As per MegaTraveller rules except as follows:
Deleted: Rich, Poor, and Industrial, Nonindustrial, Non-agro
Modified: Agricultural (may include hydro 9+)
Fluid (no size restriction, atmos A-C, hydro 1+)
13. Main Export Commodity.
if res = 5+ & tech = 1+ & pop=5+ then try to assign an export
(try as many times as there are resource points, choosing the
best outcome based on tech level)
if AG, export = d5
otherwise, export = d29+4
if no export is selected, then export=0
Export Stat Explained
---------------------
Roll Tech Etc
0 None 0 -
01 1 Textiles 5 A
02 2 Wood Products 4 A
03 3 Livestock 1 A
04 4 Agro-Consumables 4 A
05 5 Pharmaceuticals 9 -
06 6 Petrochemicals 6 L
07 7 Biologicals 1 L
08 A Antimatter H -
09 B Bio-engineering D -
10 C Computers D -
11 D Industrial Crystals 5 -
12 E Electronics C -
13 F Farm Machinery 5 -
14 G Gemstones 1 -
15 H Heavy Metals 5 -
16 I Industrial Machinery 5 -
17 J Synthetic Fabric 8 -
18 K Synthetic Foods 8 -
19 L Industrial Chemicals 7 -
20 M Rare Minerals 5 -
21 N Weaponry/Armor A -
22 O Radioactives 6 -
23 P Polymers 9 -
24 Q Cybernetics C -
25 R Robots D -
26 S Starships B -
27 T Tools 5 -
28 U Underwater Equipment 7 -
29 V Vehicles/Gravitics 8 -
30 W Banking/Insurance D -
31 X Entertainment D -
32 Y Art/Publishing/News D -
33 Z Information/Research D -
Tech=X: X is the minimum tech level
Etc=A: World must be Agricultural
Etc=L: Life must = 7+
14. Determine Bases, Gas Giants, Planetoid Belts, and Travel
Codes normally.
Similar threads
