S&P47 ACTA Review

[Romu]

Don't forget the Liati - I mean really don't - the Centauri have an interesting selection of Battle choices now..............all very different.

I'm trying to forget it exists, the miniature just sucks
And i'm not gonna bother building one as there are already plenty of other ships to choose from in the centauri fleet. I love the primus and dargan so I should be ok

 

[Romu]

:lol: Where is that ship from?

Looks like Eve online

 

[katadder]

Liati kicks ass though. nasty ship and well worth taking.

 

[Banichi]

:lol: Where is that ship from?

Looks like Eve online

Cheers. The siren ship from starcon2 was pretty phalic, in fact I think it was even ribbed.

 

[Da Boss]

Don't forget the Liati - I mean really don't - the Centauri have an interesting selection of Battle choices now..............all very different.

just wish they had a decent model for it as i want 2-3 in my fleet.

Can't agree more - you may have seen my butchery at making one - but truth be told there are more important ships to make first! Am sure there is along list somewhere...................

 

[Burger]

:lol: Where is that ship from?

Looks like Eve online

Yep, it's a Thorax. Also comes in black (Vigilant)...

 

[darknight]

you mean this one? and its called a thorax.....

 

[tneva82]

it also a question of which B5 combat game you are refering to:

There's canon and there's fan fiction.

There's too little canonical background available that to ignore what we do have(like fighters being important and used on their own and centauris having lasers) is just plain stupid if we want to have Babylon 5 space combat game rather than generic space combat game.

 

[Burger]

centauris having lasers

In which episode do Centauri have lasers?

 

[tneva82]

centauris having lasers

In which episode do Centauri have lasers?

In case you have been unable to follow B5 for past decade you DO know there's technical drawing of Primus with lasers...Nevermind Narns got their lasers from Centauri's...

 

[Burger]

In case you have been unable to follow B5 for past decade you DO know there's technical drawing of Primus with lasers...Nevermind Narns got their lasers from Centauri's...

No need for the sarcasm.

So your entire case for Centauri having beams is a drawing, of unspecified origins, that you don't even provide a link to? Whereas our evidence that they do not have beams is a direct quote from one of the major characters in an episode which is very pivotal to the entire plotline of season 5?

You lose.

 

[The Hobbybox]

I really not getting this whole Centari lasers issue.

Franklin said that they don't have 'cutting' type lasers.
They can easily have other forms of laser, for example, the 'pulse' kind, which can fire bolts of laser energy.
Hence it's perfectly possible for Primus's to have lasers, just not the cutting kind!

Also explains where the EA may have got all their Pulse lasers from, the Centauri could have sold them the pulse lasers along with all the jump gate technology!

Just my 2 pence.

 

[Alexb83]

So, with ancients now, the only crits that do anything are the hull damage and trait removal ones?

Do bridge hits still count?

Wouldn't it just be better like Greg said earlier to draw up a different table? (same rolls, but re-write what they do to make more sense for ancients).

I still don't quite see how you can rationalise their having weapon systems or engines failing against the previous notion that they were completely immune to those effects.

Shadows are shown to be disabled by beams - great, you've got a mechanic for that. But the other ancients? They should be at full effect until they're dead.

 

[Burger]

The wording of the ancients special ability was totally b0rked in the version we were sent. Hopefully it has been fixed to mean what it was obviously supposed to mean.

I think the idea is that the organic hulls of the ancients can be "stunned" or "injured", preventing them performing tasks for a short time. They quickly recover though (hence automatically repair all crits).

There's no point re-writing the crit table if it's exactly the same, but with different names and the crew column missing. Easier to just say "ignore all crew loss" (not "completely ignore all crits that affect crew"!!!).

 

[Da Boss]

So, with ancients now, the only crits that do anything are the hull damage and trait removal ones?

Shadows are shown to be disabled by beams - great, you've got a mechanic for that. But the other ancients? They should be at full effect until they're dead.

I think they are just making them the same as the Ancients in Armegedon - ie you can inflict a injury or stunning effect but that the living ships shrug it off, regenerate, have redundant organs that kick in etc etc.

Its not a new idea I think it just means all the First Ones work in the same way? Shadows get pinned by beams in the show - now in the game but they tend top be more killed than disabled!?

 

[Sulfurdown]

ok, as stated repeatedly by myself and others, the centauri DO NOT use cutting weapons, this is from on screen testimonials in court and even G'Kar stands up and states it, which is protecting the centauri in it's way.
and a laser most certainly is a cutting weapon.

The first reference that I saw to this and Burger previously has also pointed at a quote that didn't state anything about 'lasers' but (IIRC) energy weapons which could include plasma and some particle weapons. (Feel free to rebut if someone has the exact quote!)

From what I remember about realistic evaluations of Laser weapons - the amount of energy needed to transmit over the vast distances between space vessels in an offensive manner would result in more explosive vaporization of the surface of ships.

A Plasma weapon from my recollection would be more effective of a cutter, laser nearly input raw energy into the surface of the target and causes explosive vaporization and I think the reason we see medical lasers cutting or machine tool lasers cutting, is because they are operating at lower energy levels over much shorter distances and cutting through material thinner and far far less resistant that a ship's hull. To simulate that on astronomical scale you'd need a way to lock onto a hull over a long period of time to burn through the hull.

CALL TO PHYSICS STUDENTS: Corroborate or Debunk!

 

[H]

ok, as stated repeatedly by myself and others, the centauri DO NOT use cutting weapons, this is from on screen testimonials in court and even G'Kar stands up and states it, which is protecting the centauri in it's way.
and a laser most certainly is a cutting weapon.

The first reference that I saw to this and Burger previously has also pointed at a quote that didn't state anything about 'lasers' but (IIRC) energy weapons which could include plasma and some particle weapons. (Feel free to rebut if someone has the exact quote!)

From what I remember about realistic evaluations of Laser weapons - the amount of energy needed to transmit over the vast distances between space vessels in an offensive manner would result in more explosive vaporization of the surface of ships.

A Plasma weapon from my recollection would be more effective of a cutter, laser nearly input raw energy into the surface of the target and causes explosive vaporization and I think the reason we see medical lasers cutting or machine tool lasers cutting, is because they are operating at lower energy levels over much shorter distances and cutting through material thinner and far far less resistant that a ship's hull. To simulate that on astronomical scale you'd need a way to lock onto a hull over a long period of time to burn through the hull.

CALL TO PHYSICS STUDENTS: Corroborate or Debunk!

or have a further 200+ years of technological advancement

 

[MustEatBrains]

So I let myelf get drawn into the laser discussion again (guess I´m a bit bored here)...

Lasers are obviously energy weapons, which the Centauri do not employ in a cutting fashion - which in turn would be represented by the beam rule in ACTA. So, any laser-based weapon without beam would satisfy both the series as well as this mysterious technical drawing, whichever the source of that may be (despite me asking, tneva82 didn´t answer that).

Depending on the time the technical drawing was created, it might not be more than an early design concept, which was later dropped in favour of new content (like the uniquenesses of Centauri weaponry).

And yes, it is true that we don´t necessarily see ships in the series firing all the weapons they carry (like we only see one example of e-mines), but we do see two battles close to B5 with a Primus trying to do maximum damage (one vs. a G´Quan, one vs. B5 and the damaged G´Quan which tried to escape). In neither of those battles is anything beamlike to be seen, and the weapons fired by the Primus looked nothing like the traditional lasers in B5 (red beams). If they had had anything beamlike, the Centauri would surely have used it in those cases.

So, while the technical drawing might carry some weight depending on it´s source/time of creation, we DO at least know for certain that Centauri do NOT use cutting energy weapons, aka beams.

Maybe they have used it in the past (hence the source of the Narn´s version), so with the Primus being an older design it (or at least some ships) could carry lasers. But we neither see them, or are they part of regular Centauri military tactics.
[/i]

 

[Burger]

this mysterious technical drawing, whichever the source of that may be (despite me asking, tneva82 didn´t answer that).

Depending on the time the technical drawing was created, it might not be more than an early design concept, which was later dropped in favour of new content (like the uniquenesses of Centauri weaponry).

And as far as we know, he might have drawn it himself!

 

[captainsmirk]

I believe the technical drawing he is referring to was one produced by some of the special effects team and was the reason that AoG originally gave the Centauri lasers in the first place.

I have no idea if they were ever released for public review. Apparently it was stated by Robert Glass on the B5W Mailing List FAQ which no longer exists but has been quoted elsewhere.

I have looked at the original drawings at the Babylonian Studios. On these drawings the four laser barrels are clearly shown and called out. This, of course, is the most overriding argument and was what I stated about them to several people originally when this argument was first broached.

Nick