S&P 48 LAV ???

[rvrratt]

Well, I actually like the cards. Last time cards were released there was flak too but I actually tried them out before blurting out my opinion. They played great and had some great game balance, and to me game balance is important. I'm not saying that everything in Battlefield Evo is in perfect balance either, however to be fair this is the first edition and in my group rule sets are simply guidelines for us. We always come up with our own house rules if their is something we don't like. Its better than getting all bent out of shape. Its just a game, and a dagum good one at that!

These cards have me very excited as well and look forward to trying them out. I really don't want to comment on them until I try them out but I love the ant-aircraft capability the Marines have now along with Scout Snipers!

As for wish list? I really want something special for the PLA! Of all the factions I believe this is the one in most dire need of something really cool! I always beleived the PLA units were too expensive. How about some lower cost units like maybe anti-aircraft stuff or more anti-armor units. Helicopters would be great for the PLA too like maybe a Mi-24 Hind! For the USMC a command squad.

As for other units, I really want to see more Mongoose miniatures! I'm really looking forward to you guys getting back to my favorite game. I have been very concerned of the future to be honest and really hope to see it get going again. Until then, keep those S&P cards comming sir! <Snaps to attention and gives a crisp salute>.

 

[Britgirl]

I keep hoping that you might get it right one day. :lol:

IMO, you did get it right Matt! :wink:

That is a fair enough point. However, I get the feeling that there is something about BF Evo that has grabbed your imagination, but there a misfire has occured somewhere - the game is squarely aimed at one thing, while you are really looking for another.

Based upon my understanding of "The Old Soldier's" comments on evocommand, you got this one right as well. I think "The Old Soldier" is one of the biggest fans of this game, but he definitely has some unmet expectations (the leading cause of conflict in the world according to my grandfather).

Hyper-realism has never been our guiding policy in our games - our aim is to get players around a table, laughing and joking as they play. Having a good time. The best example of this approach is probably Victory at Sea, if you have ever seen it.

VaS = Funnest Game, Ever! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now where is that pesky fleet book so I can refight the Battle of Midway and sink my dad's Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, and Soryu!

The Realism count on our games probably runs somewhere in the 75-80% range, with the remainder traded off for speed, fun and what works on an average table with an average group (not saying _any_ group that plays Mongoose games is average, of course ).

Perfect mix in my book. My dad prefers about an 85% as he occasionally complains right alongside "The Old Soldier" when new stuff comes out. But when we play, he supports the laughing and joking at the table over the "rules-lawyering" as my mom calls all the argumentative types who show up to play.

And I am not saying you cannot have fun with the Realism count jacked up to 95% plus. But that is not what you will find here. I just think that if the Evo rules are your thing, you might be better served with units on Evocommand, rather than getting wound up by what we are doing

Pietia on evocommand has made some amazing cards. Some are just too technical for me. But, I'm just a girl. Albeit one who can pass the "Men's version" of the USMC Physical. :wink:

 

[tiepilot1138]

The only objection to the new cards that I have so far is the ability of an Osprey to carry 6 vehicles. Having been inside one, I really don't think you can fit anywhere near that many (even if you underslung one or two)... I realize that a Shadow is supposed to "fold up" for transport, but if you take that into account it should at least cost a few ready actions to "unfold" it when it deploys. (no way 6 Hummers can fit...)

 

[Pietia]

Pietia on evocommand has made some amazing cards. Some are just too technical for me. But, I'm just a girl. Albeit one who can pass the "Men's version" of the USMC Physical. :wink:

Thanks .
BTW: "Just a girl"? There's no "just" in "a girl" ;-)

TiePilot - AFAIR even a if you "fold" a Shadow, you can fit only one... And there's no way to fit even a single Hummer (too wide)

 

[Mr Evil]

well its good to see the hwwmv

so what else is on the wish list

USMC

USMC command

USMC anti tank (infantry)

upgraded m113's (think thats right)

them big copters with twin rotor blades (i see them in the shop with marines along the side)

for brits

Landrovers

Bulldogs

for MEA

weapon upgrades on the technicals

T-72/80/90

for PLA

mil-5s (think thats right, big copters that are old but have rockets and land troops into the action.

trucks to carry infantry cheaply.

cheaper pla infantry

other tank varients

maybe some artilery guns for all forces,, only moved by tow hitch or lots and lots of men....

 

[shotgun-toting chipmunk]

Let's go Air Force!!!

 

[lutz]

Hey Pietia



Finally found where your cards were. Like 'em. Was wondering where you got the stats for the MK19 auto-grenade launcher ? Did you extrapalate from real world ranges and compare them to the current ranges for weapons in game ? Same for damage ? Jsut wondering how it may hold up against an official one if it ever gets released. Is there a formula for stat assingning anywhere ?

 

[The Old Soldier]

well its good to see the hwwmv

so what else is on the wish list

USMC

USMC command

USMC anti tank (infantry)

upgraded m113's (think thats right)

them big copters with twin rotor blades (i see them in the shop with marines along the side)

for brits

Landrovers

Bulldogs

for MEA

weapon upgrades on the technicals

T-72/80/90

for PLA

mil-5s (think thats right, big copters that are old but have rockets and land troops into the action.

trucks to carry infantry cheaply.

cheaper pla infantry

other tank varients

maybe some artilery guns for all forces,, only moved by tow hitch or lots and lots of men....

Try the Evo site cards by Pietia, they are all there.

 

[Shadow4ce]

BTW: "Just a girl"? There's no "just" in "a girl" ;-)

Knowing her like I do, I'm quite certain she was being sarcastic. :lol:

I'll have to ask her when I get home in the morning.

As far as the physical, she has taken it and scored very well. Along with being able to run them into the ground she also out-shoots any boy anywhere near her age. :wink:

 

[The Old Soldier]

Still, I bet she can't throw a mate over her shoulder and get him out of danger while carrying a full load. I have only seen 2 or 3 women that could do that. So while girl power is all good and well, I wouldn't want them anywhere near me with the ball starts.

 

[Pietia]

Finally found where your cards were. Like 'em. Was wondering where you got the stats for the MK19 auto-grenade launcher ? Did you extrapalate from real world ranges and compare them to the current ranges for weapons in game ? Same for damage ? Jsut wondering how it may hold up against an official one if it ever gets released. Is there a formula for stat assingning anywhere ?

Formula? Nope. Whatever "feels" right...
As for the Mk19 - sometimes I think it is a little bit too powerful, but there were no complaints so far ;-)

 

[Daddy Dragon]

Still, I bet she can't throw a mate over her shoulder and get him out of danger while carrying a full load. I have only seen 2 or 3 women that could do that. So while girl power is all good and well, I wouldn't want them anywhere near me with the ball starts.

Faced with the need to have my wounded "6" hauled out of the fire, I'd gladly take someone willing to at least try, regardless of whether their reproductive organs are on the inside or out.

Regards,
Larry

 

[The Old Soldier]

Ooooh,...That is so PC of you. (makes me warm all over) Trying is not good enough, wishing is not good enough. Good intentions is not good enough. Being a ex soldier, I don't have a problem with women in the armed forces, as long as they can do what the man can do. 98% can't.

I'm glad we had this warm and fuzzy moment....

 

[Shadow4ce]

Ooooh,...That is so PC of you. (makes me warm all over) Trying is not good enough, wishing is not good enough. Good intentions is not good enough. Being a ex soldier, I don't have a problem with women in the armed forces, as long as they can do what the man can do. 98% can't.

I'm glad we had this warm and fuzzy moment....

Back when you and I were on the sharp end of the stick, this may have been true. Today, not so much. As a Law Enforcement Officer, I work with several women who could do this. In fact, I'd have to say the same percent of women as men in my agency could do this. Granted, I don't think this same percentage of the general population could, but those drawn to physically demanding jobs seem to do just fine. It is a brand new century my friend, and I for one am glad.

Besides, the new unies have drag-straps so that the soldiers (male and female) who can't do a "Fireman's Carry" can still pull our wounded backsides out of danger. :wink:

For the record, I totally agree with the sentiment of "One test" for physical fitness for combat arms MOS's. This is why my girls practice the "Men's" version, not women's. :wink:

Your first statement of whether my daughter could not perform a "Fireman's Carry" is true, as she is only a teenager and not yet finished developing muscle mass. However, I'd rather like to think based upon her accuracy with firearms, she might just take out the "baddie" trying to shoot me before I got wounded. Having been shot before, and preferring accurate fire first to being shot again, I'll take Britgirl (or any other accurate-under-pressure shooter, male or female), by my side any day. 8)

We now return this thread to it's regularly scheduled topic. Hopefully. :lol:

 

[The Old Soldier]

No worries, Like I said, if they can handle it, I have NO problem.

 

[Ben2]

I'm looking at the card in S&P and the card for the PLA tank, and the LAV is nowhere near as tough as the Type 99. I'm not sure where Old Soldier got that impression.
Kill on a type 99 is 11+, on an LAV is 9+. LAVs are bullet proof, but can't stand up to pretty much any AT weapon, and this is part of why they are cheap and light vehicles suitable for a variety of roles.
I'll start another thread with the standard LAV in.

 

[Pietia]

Not LAV, EFV. EFV has 11+ kill, 8+ target, 3 tough and 3+ save - just like Type 99. Oh, and a transport capability, 4xD10 with -3 save mod per turn even without the command squad and little bit more than half the cost... And it doesn't take the precious armor slots...

 

[Ben2]

OK. That does seem wierd.

Is the vehicle impervious to RPG-7s and 29s? If not, kill 10+. 11+ is really high for a transport.

LAV gets 9+ as it is basically made of tinfoil.

 

[Pietia]

Nope, the EFV is also made of tinfoil (a little bit thicker than in the case of LAV), as it has to swim. Fast. It will be - at best - protected from 30mm AP from the front and 14.5mm (maybe 20-25mm AP, but that's doubtful) from sides, just like most modern IFVs after some up-armoring, with some additional protection from ERA... maybe... Nowhere near MBT class protection. With 17 men carrying capacity and only 35 tonnes combat weight it can't have more protection - Bradley is roughly 30 tonnes (26-36 depending on the variant and information source you're using) with less powerful weapon system and 1/3rd of that carrying capacity.
This reminds me of an ancient computer game called F-117 Stealth Fighter, which was a remake of F-19 Stealth Fighter. There were two planes in that game, F-117 and F-19. The F-117 was real-life like (slow, clumsy and with only a few weapons), the F-19 was Deadly Aircraft of Doom and Mass Destruction. Microprose said in the manual "USAF pilots would prefer to fly in the fast and powerful F-19 rather than slow and clumsy F-117". No doubt, the USMC would love to get its hands on MPs version of EFV...

 

[Ben2]

In that case in real life I can see two things happening.

It gets delivered to the marines.

The marines have a look at the desert and war torn wasteland around them.

They think how many times they will actually need to take it into the water.

They stick every bit of armour on it they can find.

Or they leave the damn things home.

For BF:evo purposes it should be target 7+ (so .50 cal AP can damage it (and only the USMC have 50 cal anyway, everyone else with that damage stat is using a rapid fire cannon or chaingun) and kill 9+, possibly with the option to up it to 10+ for x points but lose amphibian option.

I hadn't seen the EFV before, it wasn't a unit in the playtest. The LAV was, which is why I actually know a reasonable amount about LAVs.