S&P 42 Upload
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Hiromoon said:
You know, some day you are going to be right (thinks of Apophis asteroid streaking through the void...) :roll: :wink: .
My hand is also raised for a better res of the SST Evo cards. Heck, can anyone confirm that the squad additions to beef up the Exos are listed at 110 points? That is what it looks like to me. AND if that is the case, then is the sergeant free? He used to be 25 additional points over a basic trooper, so aside from the "free" sarge it looks like a case of Exosuit cost inflation of 10%. What's the scoop?
captainsmirk
Mongoose
It looks like 110 to me.
Doesn't actually make the Sergeant free though, he still costs 110 points, he just isn't anymore expensive than the ordinary troopers...
Although that does seem odd since the LAMI sergeant costs 10 points extra...
Nick
Doesn't actually make the Sergeant free though, he still costs 110 points, he just isn't anymore expensive than the ordinary troopers...
Although that does seem odd since the LAMI sergeant costs 10 points extra...
Nick
captainsmirk said:It looks like 110 to me.
Doesn't actually make the Sergeant free though, he still costs 110 points, he just isn't anymore expensive than the ordinary troopers...
Although that does seem odd since the LAMI sergeant costs 10 points extra...
Nick
Thus my question, as skewed as it was. In the pre-Evo rules, the basic Exo-trooper is 100. A corporal is 110. A sergeant is 125 (etc.) through LT and Captain. If I were to guess, then ranks should still have additional value (they appear to be as I am looking at values in the BFE cards right now). So, my supposition is that the 330 is for three basic Exosuit troops, and the as-stated sergeant that is included was possibly left out of the tally. I was just wanting to know which it was, as the two don't add up.
Voracioustigger
Mongoose
When you consider that unit leaders essentially are nothing more than the first model that you've nominated as the unit leader, it becomes easier to see why they don't need to be worth more.
If you look at the skinnies, they no longer pay for leaders either. The only unit (that you know of) that still pays for its leader is the LAMI, but that may soon change...
If you look at the skinnies, they no longer pay for leaders either. The only unit (that you know of) that still pays for its leader is the LAMI, but that may soon change...
Well, this is all good and fine except that I had a feeling that leaders, NCOs and such were still being balanced with an additional point cost. For example, any changes in SST Evo should be also handled the same as BFE, correct? Here is what had me thinking that 'rank hath its priviledges and appropriate costs':
USMC Infantry Squad- cost 185. There are two teams of four valued at 80 points. That leaves the ninth figure, a sergeant, at 25 points (185-80-80=25). If the base cost is 20 points per body (so far it is), that leaves a base cost for the sergeant's three stripes at 5 points.
British Army Infantry Section (interesting side note that there appears to be a bit of the National Pride showing in that the card does not mention the "EFTF", snicker) :wink:- cost 160. There are two teams of four, which nicely fits into 20 per figure. Team 2 is led by a Lance Corporal (basically a private) while Team 1 is led by a Corporal.
PLA Infantry Squad- cost 190. There are ten troops which would on the surface give an average of 19 points per soldier, but there are other breakdowns that might alter this. Team 3 has a Corporal, a rifleman and a LAW gunner that has a separate value of 60 points. Team 2 has a Corporal, a Rifleman and an MG Gunner for a separate value of 30 points. Team 1 has a Sergeant, two Riflemen and a LAW gunner for a value of 100 (190 reduced by the other two teams being stripped away). If we were to value the LAW as a 30 point weapon, we get a balance when we compare Team 3 with Team 2 (Team 2 at 10 points each obviously and carrying that to Team 3 we get 30 points for the troops and 30 for the LAW). If we apply that to Team 1, we get a LAW (30 points) with the LAW gunner and two Riflemen (30 more points) for a total of 60 so far in Team 1. This leaves 40 points left over and all we have left is a Sergeant to spend it on. This of course proves that in a Communist system that life is cheap (riflemen and gunners at 10 points) and the highly valuable Elite Red Party Loyalist NCO costing 40 points, lol. Well, it just doesn't work out any other way, does it? The LAWs help the calculation, as they are in both Team 1 and Team 3. This of course proves my contention that there are additional point values for leader models: an extra 5 points for a USMC Sergeant (hey, he does have a few Cuban cigars in his vest pocket after all!), nothing in the British Infantry Section (there are no leaders above Corporal in these British Infantry Sections due to 'tea' of course and this means accurately no additional points for those chaps), and an additional 30 points for the PLA NCO (because they can always get more 10 point riflemen where they got the last ones but the 'Party' must go on).
Lastly, the MEA Infantry Squad- cost 75. This is the exception that proves the rule, as there is no additional cost for the "Leader" as he is equal to his four Riflemen at 10 points each (equaling 50 points). The RPG Gunner is 10 for him and 15 for his weapon (25), thus adding to the total of 75 points.
Now this all pans out from the points costs, and proves that there is indeed "value added" for Squad Leaders. I found it interesting from the perspective of basic points-per-body that Mongoose is a "Western Imperialist Company" and has valued the Western Powers troops at a value per body of twice that of the Eastern Powers. Indeed, how very snooty of them, heh. That is, until you remind the Eastern Players that they should be able to field more troops in the game :?.
Now what does all of the previous have to do with calculating and pulling out NCO and Officer 'hidden' values from the game cards while trying to justify why the new SST Evo cards now have no apparent rank values? Why nothing, nothing at all. I was just being a bit of my normal "wry" self and having a little fun with the numbers on the new cards :roll: .
Maybe I'll drop a copy of this in the BFE forum section, lol. :lol:
Thanks Voracioustigger, as it does appear that there is no longer much (if any) points focus on the leader units.
USMC Infantry Squad- cost 185. There are two teams of four valued at 80 points. That leaves the ninth figure, a sergeant, at 25 points (185-80-80=25). If the base cost is 20 points per body (so far it is), that leaves a base cost for the sergeant's three stripes at 5 points.
British Army Infantry Section (interesting side note that there appears to be a bit of the National Pride showing in that the card does not mention the "EFTF", snicker) :wink:- cost 160. There are two teams of four, which nicely fits into 20 per figure. Team 2 is led by a Lance Corporal (basically a private) while Team 1 is led by a Corporal.
PLA Infantry Squad- cost 190. There are ten troops which would on the surface give an average of 19 points per soldier, but there are other breakdowns that might alter this. Team 3 has a Corporal, a rifleman and a LAW gunner that has a separate value of 60 points. Team 2 has a Corporal, a Rifleman and an MG Gunner for a separate value of 30 points. Team 1 has a Sergeant, two Riflemen and a LAW gunner for a value of 100 (190 reduced by the other two teams being stripped away). If we were to value the LAW as a 30 point weapon, we get a balance when we compare Team 3 with Team 2 (Team 2 at 10 points each obviously and carrying that to Team 3 we get 30 points for the troops and 30 for the LAW). If we apply that to Team 1, we get a LAW (30 points) with the LAW gunner and two Riflemen (30 more points) for a total of 60 so far in Team 1. This leaves 40 points left over and all we have left is a Sergeant to spend it on. This of course proves that in a Communist system that life is cheap (riflemen and gunners at 10 points) and the highly valuable Elite Red Party Loyalist NCO costing 40 points, lol. Well, it just doesn't work out any other way, does it? The LAWs help the calculation, as they are in both Team 1 and Team 3. This of course proves my contention that there are additional point values for leader models: an extra 5 points for a USMC Sergeant (hey, he does have a few Cuban cigars in his vest pocket after all!), nothing in the British Infantry Section (there are no leaders above Corporal in these British Infantry Sections due to 'tea' of course and this means accurately no additional points for those chaps), and an additional 30 points for the PLA NCO (because they can always get more 10 point riflemen where they got the last ones but the 'Party' must go on).
Lastly, the MEA Infantry Squad- cost 75. This is the exception that proves the rule, as there is no additional cost for the "Leader" as he is equal to his four Riflemen at 10 points each (equaling 50 points). The RPG Gunner is 10 for him and 15 for his weapon (25), thus adding to the total of 75 points.
Now this all pans out from the points costs, and proves that there is indeed "value added" for Squad Leaders. I found it interesting from the perspective of basic points-per-body that Mongoose is a "Western Imperialist Company" and has valued the Western Powers troops at a value per body of twice that of the Eastern Powers. Indeed, how very snooty of them, heh. That is, until you remind the Eastern Players that they should be able to field more troops in the game :?.
Now what does all of the previous have to do with calculating and pulling out NCO and Officer 'hidden' values from the game cards while trying to justify why the new SST Evo cards now have no apparent rank values? Why nothing, nothing at all. I was just being a bit of my normal "wry" self and having a little fun with the numbers on the new cards :roll: .
Maybe I'll drop a copy of this in the BFE forum section, lol. :lol:
Thanks Voracioustigger, as it does appear that there is no longer much (if any) points focus on the leader units.
roughneck GIR
Mongoose
Damn himBuShips said:
Well, as already stated, leaders were seriously important in original SST, almost too important.
Losing a leader is still a big thing in the evo rules, but livable now that command can be passed on down the chain.
I think we'll see some form of chain of command in the future though, perhaps some add-on booster pack unit that's a command, gives some sort of special ability and automatically assumes command without losing 2 actions.
Actually, probably the easiest way to do this is to have some sort of officer attachment that allows the ignoring of one or suppressions a turn, but at a high cost.
Losing a leader is still a big thing in the evo rules, but livable now that command can be passed on down the chain.
I think we'll see some form of chain of command in the future though, perhaps some add-on booster pack unit that's a command, gives some sort of special ability and automatically assumes command without losing 2 actions.
Actually, probably the easiest way to do this is to have some sort of officer attachment that allows the ignoring of one or suppressions a turn, but at a high cost.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
BuShips said:
Of course. We Western Imperialists value life more them any Eastern Power Mongers. That is why we give our troops body armour. We know the Chinese have billions of little people and so are quite happy to leave their soldiers unprotected. And the Middle Easterners are all mad enough to throw their lives away in battle. :lol:
Greg Smith said:
Ahh, you saw through me completely, lol! I always loved the part of the movie "Red Dawn" when the F-15 driver was sitting around the campfire with the "kids" and remarking about the Chinese waves flowing across the border of Russia. "500 million screaming Chinese..." (and someone asks "I thought there were a billion?") and the pilot says "There were..." :lol:
Sgt Xin said:
Ditto. I mean, I can read them if I squint really hard, but it causes enough eye strain I couldn't imagine actually using them during even a playtest game. At this point I'm looking at just typing them up myself: not as pretty, but at least it'll be legible...
(I know, what do you want for free...)
