Returning to previous career?
- Thread starter doktor57
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's generic.
You could be applying to a different military, bureaucracy, or corporation, though for the same job description.
This could be the part about previous experience is taken into account.
You could be applying to a different military, bureaucracy, or corporation, though for the same job description.
This could be the part about previous experience is taken into account.
Limpin Legin
Emperor Mongoose
The question is not explicitly addressed in the CRB or TC. The direction of the rulebook appears to be always towards 'New Careers' and more (Heroic) 'excitement'. But it could depend on what the previous career was. These aspects may lead to a fair interpretation:
1) Changing Careers (pg 20) mentions that "A Traveller may get forced out of a career due to a mishap or event, or may simply leave voluntarily to pursue a more exciting or more lucrative life elsewhere. To enter a new career, a Traveller need ..."
So, it suggests that character creation is about "pursuing a more exciting or more lucrative life" . Resuming a career at a previously held rank could be considered to be both of those.
2) Retaining previous Rank: In the Changing Assignments section (pg 20), suggests that a Traveller "continues in the career, retaining their Rank" for Army, Marine, Navy, Nobility, Rogue, Scout or Scholar."
And the same section suggests that Rank resets at Rank 0 if change assignments in Agent, Citizen, Entertainer and Merchant careers. This implies that you would need to resume in the same assignment, of that career, to possibly retain the Rank.
3) Advancement Roll (pg 18):
If Rank retention became a thing, then the number of terms spent in a single career would go up. Therefore this rule would need to be well observed:
"If your advancement roll is equal to or less than the number of terms you have spent in this career, then you cannot continue in this career after this term. Either your services are no longer required, or events have caused you to leave, or perhaps you are simply bored and want a new challenge.
If you roll a natural 12, then you must continue in this career. You are too valuable to lose and will be strongarmed into staying."
1) Changing Careers (pg 20) mentions that "A Traveller may get forced out of a career due to a mishap or event, or may simply leave voluntarily to pursue a more exciting or more lucrative life elsewhere. To enter a new career, a Traveller need ..."
So, it suggests that character creation is about "pursuing a more exciting or more lucrative life" . Resuming a career at a previously held rank could be considered to be both of those.
2) Retaining previous Rank: In the Changing Assignments section (pg 20), suggests that a Traveller "continues in the career, retaining their Rank" for Army, Marine, Navy, Nobility, Rogue, Scout or Scholar."
And the same section suggests that Rank resets at Rank 0 if change assignments in Agent, Citizen, Entertainer and Merchant careers. This implies that you would need to resume in the same assignment, of that career, to possibly retain the Rank.
3) Advancement Roll (pg 18):
If Rank retention became a thing, then the number of terms spent in a single career would go up. Therefore this rule would need to be well observed:
"If your advancement roll is equal to or less than the number of terms you have spent in this career, then you cannot continue in this career after this term. Either your services are no longer required, or events have caused you to leave, or perhaps you are simply bored and want a new challenge.
If you roll a natural 12, then you must continue in this career. You are too valuable to lose and will be strongarmed into staying."
As mentioned, it isn't explicitly stated. But in a discussion about drifters and drafts, Matt said that you weren't expected to be rejoining the same career, you were doing a new one. You've mustered out. That career is done. So perhaps you got to Lieutenant in the Imperial Navy, but if you end up in the Navy again, you start over because you are now in the planetary Navy of Regina. Or a star merc squadron. Or whatever.
The changing assignments rules about retaining rank assumes you are staying in the same career, just changing subfields. Like moving from Army Support to Army armor, you keep your rank because it is the same organization. But moving from Merchant (corporate) to Merchant (Free trader), you don't because those are different organizations.
Most of the time you leave a career, it is because of a Disaster or because a failed promotion roll results in being forced out. So just rejoinining as if nothing happened is not really the intent. That said, there's not really any "problems" if the player and GM think it makes the most sense to continue where you were.
The changing assignments rules about retaining rank assumes you are staying in the same career, just changing subfields. Like moving from Army Support to Army armor, you keep your rank because it is the same organization. But moving from Merchant (corporate) to Merchant (Free trader), you don't because those are different organizations.
Most of the time you leave a career, it is because of a Disaster or because a failed promotion roll results in being forced out. So just rejoinining as if nothing happened is not really the intent. That said, there's not really any "problems" if the player and GM think it makes the most sense to continue where you were.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The purpose of character generation is to provide the player with skills and resources.
Corporation and military wise, when you switch, previous experience and skills are taken into account; if you start at the bottom, say Executive Vice President to burger server, or Colonel to Private, then something catastrophic had happened.
In theory, getting employed in a Private Military Company is after completion of character generation, but, if it weren't, rank and skills are the primary consideration.
Similarly, if you're headhunted by another corporation.
Corporation and military wise, when you switch, previous experience and skills are taken into account; if you start at the bottom, say Executive Vice President to burger server, or Colonel to Private, then something catastrophic had happened.
In theory, getting employed in a Private Military Company is after completion of character generation, but, if it weren't, rank and skills are the primary consideration.
Similarly, if you're headhunted by another corporation.
Sure, but that's not how the character generation system is designed. IRL, if you are a retired Colonel, you are probably sliding into a middle or better management position in a megacorp. But you don't in Traveller. You leave the Army and now you are a Rank 0 Merchant. Changing from Army to Army is the same thing as far as the game is concerned.
The question was what the rules are. The rule is that you start every new career at the bottom and two different Army careers are two different careers even if they are same type of career. This is why you roll muster out at the end of each career officially. Even if you are a Drifter, try to join another career, fail, and are a drifter again, it's a new drifter career.
You can change that all you want. I change lots of things about chargen to suit me. But the question was about the rules and the rule is that a new career is a new career and similar careers are not an exception.
The question was what the rules are. The rule is that you start every new career at the bottom and two different Army careers are two different careers even if they are same type of career. This is why you roll muster out at the end of each career officially. Even if you are a Drifter, try to join another career, fail, and are a drifter again, it's a new drifter career.
You can change that all you want. I change lots of things about chargen to suit me. But the question was about the rules and the rule is that a new career is a new career and similar careers are not an exception.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Traveller seems to be perpetually stuck in the 70s, when most people worked for the same company for their whole lives. Character Gen is just a reflection of that culture.
Agreed.
Yeah. I change a lot of stuff too.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The draft is an interesting mechanism.
In theory, you could get kicked out of your service, and if the player decides to spin the wheel, has a one in six chance of getting recalled.
Of course, it could be the military from his home planet, as opposed to the Imperium one.
Unless they're just looking for cannon fodder, odds are that it should be easier to get promoted.
Up or out corporate equivalent would be firing the lowest ten percent performing employees.
In theory, you could get kicked out of your service, and if the player decides to spin the wheel, has a one in six chance of getting recalled.
Of course, it could be the military from his home planet, as opposed to the Imperium one.
Unless they're just looking for cannon fodder, odds are that it should be easier to get promoted.
Up or out corporate equivalent would be firing the lowest ten percent performing employees.
I mean every character's story is different. But in the real world people often serve during a war, go back to civilian life and then re-enlist when a new war breaks out. Prior rank is sometimes retained, especially at the officer level. On the other hand, some ranks are limited in availability - a former Captain will likely be assigned a company pretty soon, but a General with low seniority might need to cool their heels as a Colonel or Major for a while.
Or, the new career might be in a Mercenary unit, possibly STARTED by the former General and they can give themselves whatever damn rank they want.
At a civilian level, an experienced character may well be applying for or be recruited to a ranking position.
I think it mostly has to be a matter between player and Referee on a case by case basis. The default would be "you need to start again", though some mechanism for possible retention of former rank in the same career seems sensible.
And then there's careers that are more or less self-employed. Entertainers, Drifters, many Colonists, Merchants and Rogues. Likely quite a few Scholars. Dilettantes.
However, I think that the rank benefits (as opposed to the title) should use total ranks earned. A character who earned three ranks in Citizen (colonist) should probably get the Navigation 1 skill if they earn a rank in a later stretch of that career, instead of having to earn four ranks.
Maybe just go with "rank title is reset, but former rank counts towards skill or bonus"?
Or, the new career might be in a Mercenary unit, possibly STARTED by the former General and they can give themselves whatever damn rank they want.
At a civilian level, an experienced character may well be applying for or be recruited to a ranking position.
I think it mostly has to be a matter between player and Referee on a case by case basis. The default would be "you need to start again", though some mechanism for possible retention of former rank in the same career seems sensible.
And then there's careers that are more or less self-employed. Entertainers, Drifters, many Colonists, Merchants and Rogues. Likely quite a few Scholars. Dilettantes.
However, I think that the rank benefits (as opposed to the title) should use total ranks earned. A character who earned three ranks in Citizen (colonist) should probably get the Navigation 1 skill if they earn a rank in a later stretch of that career, instead of having to earn four ranks.
Maybe just go with "rank title is reset, but former rank counts towards skill or bonus"?
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Four big tech executives the Army directly commissioned to be lieutenant colonels, with no military background, will not recuse themselves from business dealings with the Department of Defense -- as the Pentagon, particularly the Army, cozies up to Silicon Valley.
Earlier this month, the Army announced Detachment 201, the name being a reference to HTTP code, for the newly commissioned executives of Palantir, Meta and OpenAI. The new formation is set to recruit tech executives to work on major Army challenges, but the service has not articulated exactly what those individuals would do -- instead focusing on recruiting talent and creating jobs around them.
"They're not making acquisition decisions, they're not senior decision-makers," Steve Warren, an Army spokesperson, told reporters Wednesday when asked about what oversight mechanisms are in place over the new unit. "It's not in our interest to show any favoritism to a company -- that would be the exact opposite of what we're trying to do, right? What we want is competition. That's what we're looking for; these guys will help us think about that."
The four include Shyam Sankar, chief technology officer for Palantir; Andrew Bosworth, chief technology officer of Meta; Kevin Weil, chief product officer of OpenAI; and Bob McGrew, adviser at Thinking Machines Lab and former chief research officer for OpenAI.
They'll take part in an extremely accelerated two-week training course to familiarize themselves with the Army. Some of that will be online training and the rest will be at Fort Benning, Georgia. It's unclear whether they'll have to adhere to typical service standards including fitness and marksmanship.
Sankar has pledged to donate all of the money he earns as a part-time officer to Army Emergency Relief, the de facto nonprofit for soldiers and their families, according to a Palantir spokesperson. Pay for a part-time officer at his rank with no time in service would amount to roughly $10,000 per year but could be higher or lower depending on how much time they commit to the Army.
Last year, Sankar sold Palantir stock amounting to $367.9 million and has made numerous other multimillion-dollar deals. None of the other executives, now Army Reserve officers, responded to requests for comment. None of them were made available for interviews.
www.military.com
Dual class?
Earlier this month, the Army announced Detachment 201, the name being a reference to HTTP code, for the newly commissioned executives of Palantir, Meta and OpenAI. The new formation is set to recruit tech executives to work on major Army challenges, but the service has not articulated exactly what those individuals would do -- instead focusing on recruiting talent and creating jobs around them.
"They're not making acquisition decisions, they're not senior decision-makers," Steve Warren, an Army spokesperson, told reporters Wednesday when asked about what oversight mechanisms are in place over the new unit. "It's not in our interest to show any favoritism to a company -- that would be the exact opposite of what we're trying to do, right? What we want is competition. That's what we're looking for; these guys will help us think about that."
The four include Shyam Sankar, chief technology officer for Palantir; Andrew Bosworth, chief technology officer of Meta; Kevin Weil, chief product officer of OpenAI; and Bob McGrew, adviser at Thinking Machines Lab and former chief research officer for OpenAI.
They'll take part in an extremely accelerated two-week training course to familiarize themselves with the Army. Some of that will be online training and the rest will be at Fort Benning, Georgia. It's unclear whether they'll have to adhere to typical service standards including fitness and marksmanship.
Sankar has pledged to donate all of the money he earns as a part-time officer to Army Emergency Relief, the de facto nonprofit for soldiers and their families, according to a Palantir spokesperson. Pay for a part-time officer at his rank with no time in service would amount to roughly $10,000 per year but could be higher or lower depending on how much time they commit to the Army.
Last year, Sankar sold Palantir stock amounting to $367.9 million and has made numerous other multimillion-dollar deals. None of the other executives, now Army Reserve officers, responded to requests for comment. None of them were made available for interviews.
Tech Executives Commissioned as Senior Army Officers Won't Recuse Themselves from DoD Business Dealings
The new formation is set to recruit tech executives to work on major Army challenges, but the service has not articulated exactly what those individuals would do -- instead focusing on recruiting talent and creating jobs around them.
Dual class?
I had to look it up myself. Core page 18 (emphasis added):
Compare to 1e core page 8:
Probably the change was intentional. Though with Mongoose authors and editing I can never be 100% sure. Either way, it does seem to be RAW.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The draft and the Drifter career are exceptions to this rule – you can be drafted into a career you were previously in but got ejected from and the Drifter career is always open.
It's especially relevant in regards to Drifter, though.
Hmmm. The only part that actually talks about rank being reset within a career is when it's a change of assignment in Agent, Citizen, Entertainer and Merchant. Army, Marine, Navy, Noble, Rogue, Scholar and Scout explicitly retain rank. Drifter is not mentioned, but neither is any roll required to select one of of the Drifter assignments, so most of the text in that section (about what happens if you make of fail the enlistment roll) wouldn't apply. However, since any attempt to change assignment is automatically successful for Drifter, they'd start with rank 0 like Agent or Citizen. Which makes sense.
So... explicitly, a rank 2 Diplomat who changes to Dilettante (requiring a roll to do so) becomes a rank 2 Dilettante. But since all that really means is they get Carousing 1 if they don't already have it, it makes sense. Continuity of benefit tables also passes muster.
There really does not seem to be anything that says you lose your old rank when returning to a career, unless it's a new assignment outside of Army, Marine, Navy, Noble, Rogue, Scholar or Scout. Which are all brand new jobs, by definition. Retaining rank does simplify things.
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