Rapid Deployment Sensor Arrays

[Terry Mixon]

I've gotten into a disagreement with @mavikfelna about how rapid deployment sensor arrays work. The book says this about both kinds of array.

EXTENDED ARRAY
This is a distributed array that is extended well beyond the hull of the ship on retractable arms; there is no limit to the size of ship it can be mounted upon. However, use of an extended array greatly limits the manoeuvrability of the ship and increases its own sensor signature.

An extended array acts in the same way as a distributed array. While in use, the ship cannot expend any Thrust or jump and any attempts to detect it gain DM+2.

RAPID-DEPLOYMENT EXTENDED ARRAYS
This system works in the same way as an extended array but it can be deployed and retracted within a few seconds, allowing a ship to use its manoeuvre and jump drives within the same combat round.

So, my reading of this is that since the deployment and retraction takes seconds, a ship can pause thrust, use them, retract them, and then resume thrust. Perhaps there isn't much call for that, but I believe the rules would allow for it.

Mavikfelna disagrees. He thinks that the ship would need to spend a round coasting to use it and then resume thrust the next combat round. At least he can correct me if I'm misrepresenting his position.

Thoughts?

EDIT: It may be that a sensor action takes a combat round, though I skimmed and didn't find that anywhere. If so, I'd say that was valid.

 

[mavikfelna]

I've gotten into a disagreement with @mavikfelna about how rapid deployment sensor arrays work. The book says this about both kinds of array.

EXTENDED ARRAY
This is a distributed array that is extended well beyond the hull of the ship on retractable arms; there is no limit to the size of ship it can be mounted upon. However, use of an extended array greatly limits the manoeuvrability of the ship and increases its own sensor signature.

An extended array acts in the same way as a distributed array. While in use, the ship cannot expend any Thrust or jump and any attempts to detect it gain DM+2.

RAPID-DEPLOYMENT EXTENDED ARRAYS
This system works in the same way as an extended array but it can be deployed and retracted within a few seconds, allowing a ship to use its manoeuvre and jump drives within the same combat round.

So, my reading of this is that since the deployment and retraction takes seconds, a ship can pause thrust, use them, retract them, and then resume thrust. Perhaps there isn't much call for that, but I believe the rules would allow for it.

Mavikfelna disagrees. He thinks that the ship would need to spend a round coasting to use it and then resume thrust the next combat round. At least he can correct me if I'm misrepresenting his position.

Thoughts?

I think you got it. Basically, since thrusting and evasion are full round actions, if you expend thrust in the turn, you cannot use the array. As soon as you stop spending thrust or using evasion, you can use the array again. But you cannot thrust and use the array in the same round, otherwise it wouldn't be explicitly called out as functioning like the extended arrays, which take a full turn operation to deploy or retract or they suffer damage if thrust is applied while deployed.
Outside of combat rounds, I do not think there is any difference between the two arrays

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think you got it. Basically, since thrusting and evasion are full round actions, if you expend thrust in the turn, you cannot use the array. As soon as you stop spending thrust or using evasion, you can use the array again. But you cannot thrust and use the array in the same round, otherwise it wouldn't be explicitly called out as functioning like the extended arrays, which take a full turn operation to deploy or retract or they suffer damage if thrust is applied while deployed.
Outside of combat rounds, I do not think there is any difference between the two arrays

I'm unsure that thrust is really a full round action, though. I could be wrong but six minutes are a long time.

 

[rinku]

Since the rapid deployment is meant to take only a few seconds, and Space combat rounds are 360 seconds long, I don't really see a problem here.

At most, deduct the thrust time lost from the total (three seconds would be 1/120th of a Thrust unit... 0.00833). Mongoose Traveller does prefer to use whole thrust units and I think any reasonable take would be that 0.00833 Thrust should be considered Thrust 0.

If you INSIST on rounding up (or maybe changing it so the process takes longer than "a few seconds"), perhaps go with using the rapid deployment array costs a whole unit of Thrust. So a Type S could use one and still apply 1 Thrust, while a Type A would coast.

Thrust has to be defined in terms of time, so I can't see how 1 Thrust can't be a locked into turn length. It's 10 metres per second per second, but that only has meaning in terms of distance travelled if you include the time factor.

Another point though... while the array can be rapidly deployed and retracted, it's only gathering data while deployed. If the damn thing is only deployed for a second, you'll only get one second of observation.

So really, you may as well think in combat turns and just say it's retracted on a turn that there is maneuvering.

Or... trade thrust for observation minutes at a rate of 1/6 of the ship's maximum thrust lost for each minute of observational data obtained.

 

[Arkathan]

Assuming a pilot and a single sensor operator.
Per Core'22 pg164: In combat, Maneuver is the first step. You have to use your thrust.
Divide six by your M-Drive Rating. An M-1 takes six minutes to develop 1G. Let's say M-3, so each G is two minutes. 2G's thrust takes four minutes, leaving you two minutes.
Sensor actions come after attacks.
Your Sensop has to deploy the array, decrease the time frame of their action, and then lower the array again. Normally, we might apply multi-task, but deploy/lower are very simple actions, so -2 DM to sensors for the quick action.

Realistically, there is no reason a DM must adhere strictly to the game phase order. That M-3 ship could burn for two minutes, pause for reduced time check for sensors, and then burn for two minutes (at my table).

 

[Arkathan]

In the above example, a standard technical action takes 1D minutes. You are reducing time by one stage to 1Dx10 Seconds, because you cannot guarantee you are going to roll a 1 or a 2 in order to fit your sensor action into your thrust gap (and really you'd need a 1 because you don't have two full minutes with raising and lowering the array).

 

[Arkathan]

Also, in the case of evasion, if you are not doing it for the entire six minutes, someone is just going to wait for you to stop jinking before they shoot. Especially if their boss has naval tactical skill.

 

[rinku]

A further point... I'd also suggest that an extended array does not *prevent* the ship using thrust, but is too delicate to survive thrust undamaged. If you need to boost and can't afford time to retract the Extended Array, better budget for a new one. That's probably what the rapid deployment version is really designed for.

 

[Condottiere]

This system works in the same way as an extended array but it can be deployed and retracted within a few seconds, allowing a ship to use its manoeuvre and jump drives within the same combat round.


1. Sixty times six second rounds.

2. Few seconds within one six second round.

3. However, time line works better if it's just six second rounds, because decision and execution, plus deployment or retraction, don't effect an entire block of time.

4. Switch to dogfight mode.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I can see the issue.

While extending and retracting are effectively instant at the scale of a ship combat round it is not as if you are extending, performing a sensor sweep, then retracting in only a few seconds. The question is how long must the sensors be deployed for in order to get their job done?

 

[hopsnbaer]

I think RAI, and order of operations favor Mavikfelna, and is probably how I would run it.

It feels like an abuse of a grey area, which is easy to do in Mongoose Traveller.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

HG is clear:

HG'22, p56:
RAPID-DEPLOYMENT EXTENDED ARRAYS
This system works in the same way as an extended array but it can be deployed and retracted within a few seconds, allowing a ship to use its manoeuvre and jump drives within the same combat round.

You can use the Rapid Extended Arrays in the same combat round you accelerate or jump, that is the difference between Rapid Extended Arrays and Extended Arrays.

 

[collins355]

FWIW, this was the rule from TNE/Battle Rider:

 

[hopsnbaer]

HG is clear:


You can use the Rapid Extended Arrays in the same combat round you accelerate or jump, that is the difference between Rapid Extended Arrays and Extended Arrays.

I change my position. It seems pretty explicit now that I have fully read the rule.