Raiders, are they worth it ?

[Romu]

Thats it I'm hooked with the game.
I had the old 1st edition box taking dust for like a year and a half but we finally decided to test it with 2 friends. After 2 games I bought a centauri and league fleet and i'm definitly hooked now

Having said that i have a little thing for Raiders and i was considering buying some but from what i can read on the forums a lot of people consider them worthless. Anyone has an opinion or experiences with Raiders to share ?

On another matter, I noticed that there is no fleet box for them (i can understand that) but there should be a at least a "reinforcement" size box for them. I saw an offer for a 8 double V box in an old sign and portents but it seems it's not available anymore. Is there any plans to release some kind of box or new ships in the future ?

Without some kind of box for them it seems to be awfully expensive to create a Raider fleet. Especially if you want to use the 6 fighters/stands.
And thats too bad cos i'd really like to.
I am considering gluing 2 fighters on a round GW stand. So i'd have a stand of similar size but a lot more fighters. But i don't know, might look less impressive

Anyway if anyone play Raiders here i'd like to hear what they think about them please.

 

[H]

Raiders are, and indeed should be, a definate underdog, they are not really, a fully functioning war fleet, and heck why should they be. Howwever, you "can" take league ships with a raider fleet which improves their effectiveness, and if fighters were just a little better overall, the raiders would become a lot more effective. They are not an all out stand fighting fleet, their are, um, well, raiders really, they should use hit and run, picking on weak targets, surprise attacks and suchlike, perhaps the rules need a tweak to add something for them, i dunno, in a campaign, an ATTACKING raiders fleet may sacrifice rr, or something to perform an ambush, recon run, escort mission, or something that fits. They do have their moments though, at lower priorities against some fleet they are more than capeable, a lot does depend on your enemy, and the cheese factor of his fleet!

 

[Locutus9956]

Actually Id have to disagree slightly Hiff, raiders CAN actually be a competitive fleet in one way and one way along. They are a 1 ship fleet and that ship is the Battlewagon. Use it and use it to excess and the raiders are actually a serious force to reckoned with. The trouble is all the rest of their forces are a joke. But if you use nothing but battlewagons and some league ships for support (drazi are good as initiative sinks, Brakiri are good a for adding a big ship or two and Vree are good for scouts).

 

[Burger]

Raiders are a 1-ship race yes, the Battlewagon. But this has a boresight beam, and Raiders have poor initiative. So they need league ships, to provide initiative sinks. Vree are best at this due to their SM, T weapons and Scouts.

 

[Romu]

Ok i'm wondering, in the first rulebook Raiders can only spend 1 point worth in league ships. Did that change ? I ordered SFoS and Arma but won't have them before next week.

I hear you guys about the battlewagon, but i don't remember seeing it in the series, so i'll have to get at least one Strike Carrier or i don't see the point in playing Raiders ^^


I was thinking something along the lines of :

Raid 5

Battlewagon

Battlewagon

Strike Carrier
8 Double V

Strike Carrier
8 Double V

1 Xixx
2 Vaarl


I actually already have those vree ships, my league fleet is abbai/vree.

 

[Burger]

I think its 2 FAP of Allies since SFOS? But thats from memory, could be wrong. You're not limited to League either, you can have EA too I believe and possibly Narn? Not too sure since I'm away from my rulebook ATM.

 

[CZuschlag]

I happen to have a copy right here ....

Technically, it's 1 FAP from Vree, Abbai, Brakiri, or Drazi lists, so it appears that Pak are out of the list. Too bad, as these could be very nice initiative sinks -- Pak Sunhawk, Warbird, Ikorta....

Delta-Vs escorting Por'fa'tais? Could be real bad news.

In the main, however, Raiders do have a hideous balance problem. However, an awful lot of it might be solvable with a few balances --- if the Delta V got too much faster, the Strike Carrier wouldn't take much to get back in balance.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I think its 2 FAP of Allies since SFOS? But thats from memory, could be wrong. You're not limited to League either, you can have EA too I believe and possibly Narn? Not too sure since I'm away from my rulebook ATM.

Nope, it's 1 FAP of League ships.

What you can do, though, is use a League of Non-Aligned Worlds fleet, allowing you to take any ships from any of the League races - including Raiders. So you could have mostly Raiders ships with a few different League ships along, without being restricted to 1 FAP of allies.

Of course, you have to use the Abbai's low initiative modifier if you take any Abbai ships, but the Vree and Brakiri are at +0, the same as Raiders, so if you only use those you take no penalty. If you use any Drazi you lose their +1/+2 bonus.

 

[Burger]

OK I stand corrected..

I could have sworn you're allowed EA ships. Maybe its just me thinking "surely EA is allowed since Raiders are usually human in the series"...

Strike Carrier would be pretty much fixed by giving it hull 5 IMO. Maybe a couple of extra flights too.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

OK I stand corrected..

I could have sworn you're allowed EA ships. Maybe its just me thinking "surely EA is allowed since Raiders are usually human in the series"...

Strike Carrier would be pretty much fixed by giving it hull 5 IMO. Maybe a couple of extra flights too.

The Raiders are allowed for League fleets as mercs, and Raiders fleets can take a few League ships as bought, salvaged or supplied to them by their employers. As far as I know, EarthForce doesn't hire Raiders to do its dirty work for it (like just about every other race does) and doesn't sell its old ships to criminal gangs.

Mind you, Raiders fleets representing small human factions could reasonably have a few decommisioned EarthForce ships that had been sold off. The Mars Defence Force, for instance, if that's the right name for them.

 

[Romu]

Very interesting as i'm playing league myself.
That would allow me to play Raiders as support of my vree/abbai.
Pretty cool. I think i'll buy a battlewagon and a strike carrier soon

Thanks a lot for the infos guys.

Any word on a new ship or maybe a box for them in the next few months ?

 

[Greg Smith]

There is the Delta V2 - stats coming in S&P.

Raiders have one slight advantage in campaigns, they get more benefit from taking the Trade Route.

 

[H]

There is the Delta V2 - stats coming in S&P.

Raiders have one slight advantage in campaigns, they get more benefit from taking the Trade Route.

I'm looking forward to seeing stats for the flying wang

 

[Burger]

Mind you, Raiders fleets representing small human factions could reasonably have a few decommisioned EarthForce ships that had been sold off. The Mars Defence Force, for instance, if that's the right name for them.

Yes exactly thats where I thought they got them from. The Delta V is an old EA design after all. Add decommissioned to ships that have been boarded, captured or just plain stolen and you've got EA in the fleet list too. But if it's not in the rules, then its not in the rules, no matter how much sense it makes...

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

The raiders are a fun fleet to play with or against, but don't expect great victories from them. They die in droves and don't do much hurting. I play against them a lot with early EA and Dilgar. the fights are often close, but the Raiders don't have enough firepower to put down their targets fast enough

 

[LordClinto]

On another matter, I noticed that there is no fleet box for them (i can understand that) but there should be a at least a "reinforcement" size box for them. I saw an offer for a 8 double V box in an old sign and portents but it seems it's not available anymore. Is there any plans to release some kind of box or new ships in the future ?

Do some converting & get some variety!

I used a beat up Hyperion (bad cast) added lots of bits and turned it into a Battlewagon. I made an Omega into a Raider Nova. Turned a Space Liner into a Strike Cruiser. Currently working on both an Omelos based and a Posiedon based Strike Cruiser.

OK I stand corrected..

I could have sworn you're allowed EA ships. Maybe its just me thinking "surely EA is allowed since Raiders are usually human in the series"...

Strike Carrier would be pretty much fixed by giving it hull 5 IMO. Maybe a couple of extra flights too.

You are probably thinking of the Argent's Crusaders list (from some far back issue of S&P), they can take 2 FAP of EA ships.

Don't forget about the Ghosts of Omelos using Dilgar ships.

Personally I have had great success with Raiders (usually with Abbai allies), especially the Raider Nova from Armageddon. People tend to pound on it, disregarding my battlewagons, and my fighterless Strike Carriers that are convieniently placed to "Ram" if crippled.

The last 5 point Raid I played with as Raiders I had 30 flights of Delta Vs out on Turn 3.

Their delta Vs may be crap but getting 6/Patrol point or 4 with a Strike Cruiser for a Skirmish goes a long way to making up for their failings.

Hope to have helped

 

[B_Steele]

I personally love playing my Raiders, and have won a few games with them...even against Centauri or *gasp* Minbari.

The question that really comes to bear is if you and your friends are fun players that take mixed-level and hull fleets that are interesting and dynamic, or if they look for the "ten of your bestest ship" mentality that many players seem to cling to in order to win, win, win instead of having fun with friends.

I know that my group plays mostly just for fun, so it could be that my raiders have not run into one of the cheese fleet lists yet.

That being said, if your group allows, I made up two alternate Raider fleet lists in Signs and Portents for some added flavour - see Wargaming issues #28 and #36 for details.

Cheers and have a great day,
Bry

 

[Romu]

The question that really comes to bear is if you and your friends are fun players that take mixed-level and hull fleets that are interesting and dynamic, or if they look for the "ten of your bestest ship" mentality that many players seem to cling to in order to win, win, win instead of having fun with friends.

That being said, if your group allows, I made up two alternate Raider fleet lists in Signs and Portents for some added flavour - see Wargaming issues #28 and #36 for details.
Bry

Well atm we re playing for fun but we ve only been playing for a few weeks so we'll see what the future has in store.

I already checked your special lists and they re pretty cool

The last 5 point Raid I played with as Raiders I had 30 flights of Delta Vs out on Turn 3.

Hehe pretty cool
Well if i was listenning to my heart i'd play this list :

Raid 5

Strike Carrier
12 Delta V

Strike Carrier
12 Delta V

Strike Carrier
8 Double V

Strike Carrier
8 Double V

Strike Carrier
8 Double V

But i think i wouldn't work very well
Hell i'll buy two Battlewagon and two Carriers and we'll see. Very excited to try this, i might even buy the civilian ships box. One of my friends is playing Earth alliance, I think we could have a few fun scenarios.

 

[Balance]

Yes exactly thats where I thought they got them from. The Delta V is an old EA design after all. Add decommissioned to ships that have been boarded, captured or just plain stolen and you've got EA in the fleet list too. But if it's not in the rules, then its not in the rules, no matter how much sense it makes...

Is it actually a former EA design? I thought there were some references to it being built as a competitor to the starfury, more for local governments/corporate security where the ability to go into atmosphere would be an asset, especially before the Thunderbolt's introduction.

 

[Romu]

Hm i have a noob question but can a ship with speed 0 still turn or not ?

I guess it can't but it's not really specified in the rules. (At least the one i have right now, still waiting on that SFoS and Arma books to arrive ^^)

Might sound stupid but a friend who's playing with me was asking and well i'd like to be really clear on that as i suppose you can't turn anymore.