Question about movement

[Mikko Leho]

I am trying wrap my head around the new combat system and movement has left me baffled. On page 63 the rulebook states that the standard human walking speed is 8m for a Combat Round. On page 84 Move is listed as a Combat Action for moving character up to his movement rate.

Question 1: If a character has 3 CAs, can he take them all as moves and walk 24m? I don't think so as the rule for movement permits only 8m walking for a round.

Question 2: If the limit for walking distance in a Combat Round is 8m, then must a character who wants to walk into the open, fire his bow and then walk back to cover use three Combat Actions (move+attack+move)? I think so and his cumulative walking distance cannot exceed 8m. This would mean something like: walk 6m + fire bow + walk 2m.

 

[Loz]

Page 84 is a typo. It should read per Combat Round.

Movement is abstract and measured across the entire combat round rather than per Combat Action. Thus one can move up to the movement allowance (different distances for different speeds, taking into account Armour Penalty) in a round although how he does it depends on what actions he is taking and using.

An archer, with 3 CA for instance, could take his first CA to attack with his bow and then sprint up to 40m to get a better position, and use his last CA to reload his bow.

So to answer your questions:

Question 1: If a character has 3 CAs, can he take them all as moves and walk 24m? I don't think so as the rule for movement permits only 8m walking for a round.

At walking pace he could cover no more than 8m, but would only need to spend one CA to do so. He can use his remaining CA for whatever actions he needs to take.

Question 2: If the limit for walking distance in a Combat Round is 8m, then must a character who wants to walk into the open, fire his bow and then walk back to cover use three Combat Actions (move+attack+move)? I think so and his cumulative walking distance cannot exceed 8m. This would mean something like: walk 6m + fire bow + walk 2m.

As indicated above, it depends on his pace. He could move/attack/move at a walking pace, but not exceed 8m. Or could sprint/attack/sprint but not exceed 40m (or whatever sprinting distance he can achieve depending on his Armour Penalty).

 

[gran_orco]

It is a good exemple, and I like this system -more dynamic-.
So, if a character is using a bow while moving (page 94, firing on the move) I suppose that he could combine one previously declared movement action with another one of attack. Or could he spent 2 CA at the same time?

 

[Mongoose Pete]

So, if a character is using a bow while moving (page 94, firing on the move) I suppose that he could combine one previously declared movement action with another one of attack. Or could he spent 2 CA at the same time?

If the PC is willing to suffer the skill cap for firing on the move, then I don't see why he can't combine the two on the same CA.

Remember that missile weapons like bows have reload times too... and before you ask, there's no problem combining reloading as part of a movement either, assuming you're not sprinting.

 

[Ssendam]

So what stops every move being a sprint?

Surely sprinting indicates a straight line movement? i.e. you could not move out of cover and back in "sprinting".

(book not arrived yet so i can't look this up )

 

[Mikko Leho]

So what stops every move being a sprint?

When sprinting the attack percentage cannot exceed character's Athletics skill.

there's no problem combining reloading as part of a movement either, assuming you're not sprinting.

So you need to take first move action, fire your weapon and then reload, which you can combine with walking as your character already took move action. Am I correct? Where can I find the ruling about no reloading while sprinting?

 

[gran_orco]

So what stops every move being a sprint?

When sprinting the attack percentage cannot exceed character's Athletics skill.

Where did you saw that?

there's no problem combining reloading as part of a movement either, assuming you're not sprinting.

So you need to take first move action, fire your weapon and then reload, which you can combine with walking as your character already took move action. Am I correct? Where can I find the ruling about no reloading while sprinting?

Page 94, firing on the move.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

So you need to take first move action, fire your weapon and then reload, which you can combine with walking as your character already took move action. Am I correct? Where can I find the ruling about no reloading while sprinting?

Loading still requires its own CA, its just you can be moving whilst loading.

There currently is no rule against loading whilst sprinting. However I don't think I'd allow it myself. If your players complain, give them a bow, strap a quiver of arrows to their leg and ask them to sprint (a proper 40m sprint in 5 seconds mind you) whilst reloading. I'd be surprised if they even have many arrows left in the quiver, but if they manage it 5 times out of 10 allow them to do it in the game.

Only joking, do whatever fits the heroic feel of your campaign. :wink:

 

[Mikko Leho]

When sprinting the attack percentage cannot exceed character's Athletics skill.

Where did you saw that?

On page 94 under Firing on the Move. Granted it only applies to ranged weapons.

 

[Mikko Leho]

There currently is no rule against loading whilst sprinting. However I don't think I'd allow it myself.

When in doubt common sense triumphs.

 

[gran_orco]

When sprinting the attack percentage cannot exceed character's Athletics skill.

Where did you saw that?

On page 94 under Firing on the Move. Granted it only applies to ranged weapons.

I cannot translate it. Could you help me? Ranged attacks may not be used if the attacker is charging. Then, is his athletics skill used only when his attack is with a close combat weapon and he is running?

 

[Mikko Leho]

I cannot translate it. Could you help me?

Let's see, when sprinting the character's shooting skill cannot be higher than her Athletics skill. So when a character with Bow 65% and Athletics 45% tries to shoot while sprinting her attack roll percentage would be 45% as her Athletics skill is lower of the two. If the skill percentages were the other way around (Bow 45% and Athletics 65%) her attack percentage would still be 45% as Athletics does not raise the percentage, only sets the limit on how high it can be.

 

[gran_orco]

I can understand that, but later I read "Ranged attacks may not be used if the attaker himself (rather than a mount) is charging". That is what I do not understand.

 

[Mikko Leho]

I can understand that, but later I read "Ranged attacks may not be used if the attaker himself (rather than a mount) is charging". That is what I do not understand.

I understand it so that the rider orders her mount to charge and she takes a ranged attack herself. So the mount does the actual charging and gains the benefits from it, while its master just sits on the saddle and fires her bow. Two things happen at the same action: Mount - Charge and Rider - Fire. The rule is in place to prevent the rider from gaining the benefits from her mount's charge and firing at the same action. Or this is what I believe it means, please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

[Mikko Leho]

Now that I think about it the rider would have to ready a melee weapon after ranged attack so my interpretation is not correct.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I understand it so that the rider orders her mount to charge and she takes a ranged attack herself. So the mount does the actual charging and gains the benefits from it, while its master just sits on the saddle and fires her bow. Two things happen at the same action: Mount - Charge and Rider - Fire.

Yes, the mount can charge and the rider shoot.

The rule is in place to prevent the rider from gaining the benefits from her mount's charge and firing at the same action. Or this is what I believe it means, please correct me if I am incorrect.

No, that's not it. The mount (if sapient or war trained for example) could use its own CA to charge, so both can happen at the same time.

The rule is there as a bit of common sense. Its to stop players trying to boost their Damage Bonus for a missile attack, by twisting the charging mechanic. :roll:

 

[Mikko Leho]

The rule is there as a bit of common sense. Its to stop players trying to boost their Damage Bonus for a missile attack, by twisting the charging mechanic. :roll:

I wasn't thinking about the Damage Bonus earlier, I thought someone might believe that just because their character's mount is charging the character can also charge and fire missile weapon at the same time.

I think we are getting somewhere as our misunderstanding is only about how someone might misunderstand the rules :wink:

 

[gran_orco]

Ok, so a mount can charge and ther rider can fire but his attack skill cannot exceed his ride skill. So far I understand this.
"When an attacker is running then his attack percentage cannot exceed his Athletics skill" oes It refers to the mount only? If not, next sentence is contradictory ("Ranged attacks may not be used if the attacker is charging").
I wish I had a 95% in English language :S

 

[Mongoose Pete]

"Ranged attacks may not be used if the attacker is charging"

This is specifically referencing the Charge CA. For the purposes of the rules, charging is not the same as sprinting.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I think we are getting somewhere as our misunderstanding is only about how someone might misunderstand the rules :wink:

You nailed it right there.

The biggest problem we had during the playtests was the result of trying to phrase the rules so that they were short, clear and simple. Simple phrasing sometimes allows the rule to be misinterpreted, or worse still, deliberately reinterpreted to gain an advantage.

Unfortunately, to shut down these linguistic loopholes often requires a lot of extra rules and limitations. Then suddenly the nice simple paragraph has turned into half a page of boring and hard to understand mechanics.

Since page count was limited and we didn't want to produce an impenetrable tome, we tried to stick on the side of simple. Its near impossible to stop legalistic players from trying to twist rules, we just hope the spirit of what we intended comes across clearly enough for GMs to easily houserule those parts where the language is loose. Believe me, after going through what seemed to be a never ending list of "what if I..." playtester questions, I know that its impossible to write a mechanic which won't be used in a way you never dreamed of... which is the reason for the mantra Loz included on p4, 'Your RQ Will Vary'.