Pulling over an Air/Raft, and other police related questions

S

ShadowDrake

Mongoose
I looked for this question through the search feature, but couldn't find it. Apologies if this has been asked before.

Quite simply, how do police/security personnel stop an airborne grav vehicle and then remove the passengers, if necessary?
As a basic example, say Accountant Alan is late for work and blares through the busy skylanes of the city at speeds well beyond the recommended 100kph. Officer Bob, hiding behind a floating billboard, sees Alan and gives pursuit, turning on his strobes and siren (Also, how would this work? Would the pursued cars computer inform the driver that he is being pulled over?). Alan is an upright citizen, so he doesn't flee, but how does Officer Bob get from his police grav-vehicle to Alan's? Are there convenient floating platforms? Do they land? What if Alan is hiding a large shipment of drugs in his trunk and flees from the police? How do they stop him?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
 
Depends. :evil:

Seriously, it's going to depend a lot on the tech and law level of the world in question.

On high law/high tech worlds, he probably won't even have to pull you over - the air/raft's computer will be directed to take you to the nearest police substation.

On worlds that don't have a lot of air rafts, or technology, and lower law levels, they'll politely ask you to land at the nearest safe spot, but may not be able to do anything about actually forcing you to.

Check out the first half of the movie The Fifth Element for some ideas - in that, the police vehicles had grappling hooks that pulled the vehicles together.
 
Let's assume we're dealing with a lower tech level world/a criminal who has overridden his car's computer. How would he be stopped then? Besides a volley of Fifth Element gunfire. (I have seen the movie)
 
Standard Police trick: A crook in a better vehicle can outrun the local cops, but he can't outrun the radio.

Really low-tech, he gets away. Plain and simple.

Earth in living memory TLs and reasonable population means he's being tracked by radar and/or orbital observation, and will be jumped later.

Grav vehicles in some use probably plays the same way.

Grav in ubiquitous use on a Hi-Pop means he's probably added another crime: un-directed control of a vehicle, and is being tracked directly.

High Law Level, non-humourous junta, or martial law means he gets shot down.
 
ShadowDrake said:
Let's assume we're dealing with a lower tech level world/a criminal who has overridden his car's computer. How would he be stopped then? Besides a volley of Fifth Element gunfire. (I have seen the movie)
Click to expand...

Well, 'low tech' with grav vehicles and car computers should have no problem generating an electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

Since standard TL-12 starships require extras to handle EMP (hardened bridge/radiation shielding) - there is no reason to assume the controls of the grav vehicle would be shielded.

Since you don't seem to want the 'blasted outta the sky' effect. The disabling EMP would likely be accompanied with some sort of 'non-lethal' safe catching method (burst expanding-foam/aerogel ball that would engulf vehicle along with some sort of cushioning/parachute system or more primitive parachute capture nets).
 
Larry Niven's Ringworld had Louis Wu's and Speaker-to-Animals' flycycles brought down by police fields which, essentially, focused a directed EMP at their electronics, frying them. The police field also included tractor beams to hold them in place and keep them from just falling to the ground and dying, but that's not likely at the tech levels of the Imperium.

I suspect that the only real methods the police need are (a) authority; (b) lots of backup; (c) faster, heavier, armoured cop flyers.

There's an escalation ladder of responses. The lowest rung is a simple voiced demand for compliance. That can be due to the fact that the flyer's tail light is busted or some such. That alone is usually sufficient; the cop's authority does the trick, and the car pulls over.

The next rung is if the flyer jackrabbits, identifying his status as a perp. Yes, this does include the Judge Dredd variation of Traveller. Keep reading. At this point, the cop gives chase - but more importantly, he radios it in. This alerts the local cops that the flyer has initiated a chase, and that the cop is in pursuit.

Now if it's a cold pursuit, the cop will just follow the perp discreetly and just be there for when the flyer inevitably screws up and crashes, so he can tape off the crash site and wait for the coroner. Other units will race on ahead, where possible, and close off air lanes, preventing other flyers from crossing the perp's path - again, where possible.

In the case of a hot pursuit, where the perp is marked for urgent detention because he is clearly a danger to himself or to others, the cop will advise Dispatch accordingly, and be advised by Central in turn. This is likely to bring in other units from elsewhere, who will cooperate in setting up box traps.

In the simplest box trap, a group of cop flyers will approach the fleeing perp on parallel courses, wedging the perp into a lattice with the perp at the centre surrounded by bumper to bumper cop flyers. They'll at first admonish the perp to give himself up and land. Failing that, they'll force him down, ensuring at least one cop flyer remains airborne to block the perp's escape route upwards.

Other box traps would involve the flyers using natural terrain features, such as narrow streets, to do the same thing; get in overhead, behind and in front of the perp car and force the perp to land.

It is only if the perp is performing clearly suicidal flight stunts, such as diving at cop cars, dodging and weaving and getting into air lanes occupied by oncoming flyers, that the cops have little choice but to hang back a distance and let loose with powerful weapons such as gauss rifles or whatever they have as standard issue.

In the Dredd variant, that'd be a natural progression from a commanding Judge voice, to fists, to daysticks, Lawgivers, armour piercing, hi-ex, bike cannon and, at the end, a Manta's heavy weaponry.
 
Even at our current TL8ish, technology has already developed remote kill switches for cars. Due to safety concerns, considerations have been made to slowly power down the car. Heck even the simple stop stick ensures cars slow down and don't suddenly stop (hollow deflation needles as opposed to quickly blowing a tire).

I would think at technological levels that allow grav vehicles, this simple idea would still be used. The police could activate a remote kill switch on the target grav vehicle that then automatically slows down and lands at the first available safe spot. Or, if you think this is too advanced at even grav tech levels, the kill switch doesn't make the grav car land, but it slows to a stop and hovers (everything but gravity control is shut down). The police grav car then could "dock" or perhaps hook on with a magnetic bumper grappler and tow the offending car to the surface.
 
I think this is what ShadowDrake addressed with 'criminal who has overridden his car's computer.'
 
The predicament of police stopping grav vehicles in pursuits without killing the occupants (or those on the ground) may have no easy answer. This is similar to the predicament facing modern law enforcement in car chases today. The answer you are facing may be there is no easy answer.

Standard Operating Procedure 156:12 (Grav Vehicle Pursuits)

1. Activate Grav-vehicle Override Device.

2. If GOD fails, follow the offending grav vehicle and/or ask for local radar surveillance in an attempt to take occupants into custody safely when the vehicle lands.

3. If the offending vehicle begins making manuveurs which may harm the public or its occupants, terminate all direct pursuit except for class C felonies (those crimes committed by the offenders that may lead law enforcement to assume the offenders will harm or kill citizens if not taken into custody immediately).

The stresses of law enforcement continue even with advanced technology. :)
 
Pet peeve of mine the law level stuff:
At LL6 TL9 items (air/rafts) prohibited, and excessive (?) contact with citizens is forbidden
At LL7, visitors are restricted to the star port (The Terminal movie with Tom Hanks is NOT my impression of traveller! Adventure how the *()&& one supposed to have an adventure restricted to port without breaking the law?! wt??, reminds me of Harrison's "the stainless steel rat" more kind of universe lol) You *really* think you could prevent a Navy Destroyer's crew (or any crew!) from taking liberty?!
At LL8 heck you can't even land??!!

Personally, maybe they *don't* chase them, maybe they shoot anything down above 500m. Rather than some whiffy deal device, I'd just have a good pilot pulling up alongside them signalling "stop!" or "down!", while his buddy waves at you with the shotgun, no? But then i rather liked the whole 5th element chase stuff. possibilities are endless, very likely varies depending on where you're at, and all in all have fun!
 
BP said:
Sturn said:
... If GOD fails, follow ...
Click to expand...
:lol:
Click to expand...

Hey that snippet means something totally differen then what I intended!

I just wanted a funny acronym for a device that could stop a grav vehicle in its tracks (pun intended this time).
 
I have used the "Hover mode" kill switch in my games. Drives players NUTS when they can't make their rolls to override the system.

I use Hover because depending on the planet, it may not be possible to safely land anywhere. Hovering works any circumstances that an Air/Raft could be used.
 
Maccat said:
Pet peeve of mine the law level stuff:
At LL6 TL9 items (air/rafts) prohibited, and excessive (?) contact with citizens is forbidden
At LL7, visitors are restricted to the star port (The Terminal movie with Tom Hanks is NOT my impression of traveller! Adventure how the *()&& one supposed to have an adventure restricted to port without breaking the law?! wt??, reminds me of Harrison's "the stainless steel rat" more kind of universe lol) You *really* think you could prevent a Navy Destroyer's crew (or any crew!) from taking liberty?!
At LL8 heck you can't even land??!!
Click to expand...

Remember, not all items are banned. Only the most repressive regimes will ban all the columns listed under Law Level - most will only ban one or two.
 
Most Imperial Destroyer crews are not going to want liberty on a LL 8 world anyway.

Also, the Starport will likely include several bars/brothels/etc (under Imperial LL).

As Gar said, pick and choose what to restrict/enforce from the table. It is was gives 2 LL 8 worlds a difference worth exploring.
 
For what it might be worth, many countries in the real world severely limit imports through high import taxes, and most of these countries are not opressive dictatorships.

Imagine if the government 'bans' nothing from higher tech levels, but encourages a balance of trade by taxing imports at 50% per TL above planetary norm. The TL 7 world charges 50% of list price to allow TL 8 goods to enter the world and 250% of list price to import TL 12 goods.

Your 250,000 credit TL 8 air raft will require paying a 137,500 credit import tax to get it past the starport Extrality fence, or you can buy a new air raft on the planet for 387,500 credits. A 100,000 credit TL 12 Grav Belt will require paying a 250,000 credit import tax or you can buy a new Grav Belt on the planet for 350,000 credits.

From this example, the effects of the LL on imported technology need not be as draconian as a stormtrooper enforced total ban to still effect the availability of higher TL goods. The ref should use the rules as a guideline and should be more creative in enforcing it.
 
atpollard said:
For what it might be worth, many countries in the real world severely limit imports through high import taxes, and most of these countries are not opressive dictatorships...
Click to expand...

Also - for most of its history the U.S. Federal government was supported by duties and tariffs - not taxes!

So in Traveller - it wouldn't be outta line to give great trade prices on certain goods (like weapons) a yet when the players arrive they find that their profits are not so rosy due to the government's desire to restrict certain goods and tech to the wealthy and government. And make the government rich to boot!
 
ShadowDrake said:
Quite simply, how do police/security personnel stop an airborne grav vehicle and then remove the passengers, if necessary? As a basic example, say Accountant Alan is late for work and blares through the busy skylanes of the city at speeds well beyond the recommended 100kph. Officer Bob, hiding behind a floating billboard, sees Alan and gives pursuit, turning on his strobes and siren (Also, how would this work? Would the pursued cars computer inform the driver that he is being pulled over?). Alan is an upright citizen, so he doesn't flee, but how does Officer Bob get from his police grav-vehicle to Alan's? Are there convenient floating platforms? Do they land? What if Alan is hiding a large shipment of drugs in his trunk and flees from the police? How do they stop him?
Click to expand...
Speeding? Legal passenger vehicles may have built in speed limit detection. Many other traffic violations of earth today can be avoided via technology. I would think a form of air control and auto pilot would be utilized in some places.

An officer might simply contact the speeder via the vehicles comm system and notify them of the offense. As long as the driver corrects their speed, no 'trafic stop' is needed. By the way, in order to activate the vehicle, you need to insert your drivers license into a slot. Or maybe your DL is scanned by the vehicle wirelessly. The police can access this information for 'ticketing'.

How fleeing from police is handled, as others have indicated, could vary greatly between different systems. A variety of methods for controlling or disabling the vehicle could be implemented. For folks that have somehow overridden the automated systems, there are numerous simple and more complex things like 'tagging' the vehicle with a gps locater, blinding sensors with paint or glue, clogging intake systems or exhausts with expanding foam, or harpooning the vehicle and on the end of the harpoon is a grav device that the police can control increasing the gravity and pulling the vehicle down. I sure many more possibilities can be imagined.

On a side note. Some things can not be plugged into and 'hacked'. Imagine trying to hack a hand held calculator. Many devices will not have data ports and over writable software. I think sensitive items would have sealed boxes and 'hardcoded' or 'write once' software.
 
Maybe rather than use the drive-disable-gun or whatever they just have a radio switch they hit that activates the roof blow-off and ejection seat, then swoop you up as ya parachutin down <s>

Good point atpollard on the tech level, import/tariff n such as well!
 
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