Psion is HERE!

[EDG]

My point isn't that it'll hurt their feelings, nor do I think that there is any way to make anyone aware of "how stupid they look" that will do any good (I've learned that). I'd just like to not have them feel motivated to defend their points/ego/personality here....

It's not like anyone's going to call them to task for it there is it. More likely than not the Mods would actually defend them (and already have, in some cases).

People need to know that the negativity that a certain crowd spout elsewhere is misguided, unnecessary and unconstructive, and driven by their own bitterness and deluded notions about "what the game is". And while we could all be served well by just ignoring it, it doesn't stop them from spewing their bile for anyone there to see.

If the mods there had any balls (or actual integrity) then they'd shut that discussion down and at the very least ban those people from the MGT board there, but I'm sure they won't do that - then perhaps people might be able to discuss MGT positively there for once. But maybe they should instead just close down that MGT board entirely - anyone who wants to talk positively about MGT can do it much better here, without fear of some jackass trying to tear them apart over it. As it is that environment is still too hostile for rational discussion of MGT there (I thought the point of them locking the hostile threads a while back was to make it less so, but evidently that was pointless).

 

[captainjack23]

1. The decision to use the traveller cover was based on the assumption that it would be helpful to sell to more than four or five exceptionally tenacious and vocal critics.

2. According to Matt, distributors, and Game stores, It was, tremendously so. End of that part of the issue.

Interestingly, once the pissoffedness in the "other" site is parsed out (as well as old grudges, ego, social issues,blatant trolling and personality disorders ), the point is very much worth noting. MgT is different. Post CT all editions were highly setting bound. Not one presented alternate worldbooks. That's huge, really, and what has defined traveller for lots of players who are less ancient, fanatic or grognardy (unlike myself), or who simply never had the LBB generiset.


Yes, it's obvious to us that MgT was a cross-setting rules set; we live here, we probably are much more in touch with that assumption. Obviously, not to others, and even some here; obviously, too, that's provoked a small amount of loud screaming, but it does suggest that it's a problem (probably less angry a problem) in a substantial subset of potential customers. This is a real issue, if not a huge one, and one that effects the bottom line for Mongoose.

Product misperception is a killer, and just writing off the situation as frothing is easy emotionalkly, but less helpful for sales. My feeling is, anything honest and straigtforward that Mongoose can do to make this clear is for the better, as long as it doesn't start wagging the dog, as 'twer.

I think Mongoose could do way worse than clarifying its sales blurbs, and possibly trying again with the comments in and on the various books yet to come. The Non Canon list is an excellent idea also. Both seem to satisfy at least half of the vocal critics in the "other" thread, so likely it will help with a larger group of non-vocal customers who would otherwise balk or feel cheated.

Hope that wasn't too dense or convoluted.

 

[atpollard]

I think it was ill-advised to name them after the old books, because it created the expectation that they'd be the same as the old ones (and they clearly weren't) and led to unfair comparisons. Yes, they covered similar topics, but IMO they should have had new names to distinguish them from the previous books.

Careful there, you are starting to sound like one of "them". :wink:

Looking at your signature, I see that you are "the" EDG (Dr. Thomas) and not merely one of the similarly named individuals. I withdraw my earlier comments since, from past experience, I know that you can 'sound' argumentative even when agreeing with something - just your style/personality I guess.

The ironic part is that most of the disagreement seems to be hyperbole. Both fans and critics often list similar factual observations (like missing ammo/equipment weights) but then bury them among 'fighting words'.


PSION:
Generally not my cup of tea (the subject not the product).
I've seen Psi powers done well in books, but they felt too 'spell-like' in most game rules I've seen. I'll probably wait until some MUST HAVE setting is released that requires Psionics before ordering it. Does MgT:B5 have Psi rules/abilities. That would be a good setting for additional Psionics to be added to.

 

[captainjack23]

If the mods there had any balls (or actual integrity) then they'd shut that discussion down and at the very least ban those people from the MGT board there, but I'm sure they won't do that - then perhaps people might be able to discuss MGT positively there for once. But maybe they should instead just close down that MGT board entirely - anyone who wants to talk positively about MGT can do it much better here, without fear of some jackass trying to tear them apart over it. As it is that environment is still too hostile for rational discussion of MGT there (I thought the point of them locking the hostile threads a while back was to make it less so, but evidently that was pointless).

I call your attention to some posts here and on SFRPG by a well known poster here (and admin there), suggesting repeatedly that that cross group bashing and tribalism is uneeded and shouldn't be brought into other groups.

"lets not bring that negativity here" was a paraphrase, I believe.

 

[EDG]

I think it was ill-advised to name them after the old books, because it created the expectation that they'd be the same as the old ones (and they clearly weren't) and led to unfair comparisons. Yes, they covered similar topics, but IMO they should have had new names to distinguish them from the previous books.

Careful there, you are starting to sound like one of "them". :wink:

No... I said I thought it was ill-advised, that's all. It's done though, and to an extent I think it did bite Mongoose in the arse a bit. But I'm sure they'd say that naming them that way generated more sales too. Either way, it's no big deal.

I do agree with "them" though that it would be nice for Mongoose to mark the OTU material in the general rule books with a symbol though, for those who care about maintaining its "purity". I don't see how that would cause any problems.

 

[OldMongooseFordy]

This is starting to go round in as many circles as the other thread. Don't think we need to start harping on about it here as well.

 

[EDG]

I call your attention to some posts here and on SFRPG by a well known poster here (and admin there), suggesting repeatedly that that cross group bashing and tribalism is uneeded and shouldn't be brought into other groups.

"lets not bring that negativity here" was a paraphrase, I believe.

I guess I've just lost my patience with CotI, and don't see how they're worthy of that kind of respect anymore since they don't seem to be willing to stop the MGT hate there. If Matt has a problem with me venting about it then I'll stop, but as far as I can see CotI's just become consumed by this self-reinforcing festival of MGT hate, and anyone who goes there who doesn't know of its bias is going to really get the wrong idea.

 

[MongooseMatt]

If Matt has a problem with me venting about it then I'll stop, but as far as I can see CotI's just become consumed by this self-reinforcing festival of MGT hate, and anyone who goes there who doesn't know of its bias is going to really get the wrong idea.

Yeah, probably best we stop

 

[EDG]

OK

 

[lastbesthope]

(but then that's not surprising when two of the moderators have admitted to disliking MGT, and so seem to think it's OK to allow others to slag it off there).

To be absolutely fair to them, I had a quick chat with a moderator about this. His answer was basically 'hey, while they are bashing you, they ain't bashing us!'

I had to smile at that

I nearly got Irn-Bru on my keyboard at that! :lol:

LBH

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

SOOOOO

(Yanks hard to pull the thread back on topic)

Traveller Book 4: Psion

I really liked how the author was very emphatic that any of the Advanced Talents needed to be Referee approved.

Now, to confuse things again.

ASSUMING that you want to use the Advanced Talents in your THIRD IMPERIUM Setting game, what Advanced talents would you give to the Zhodani?

Here are the talents that I think I will allow the Zhodani in my game to have access to:

Aura Perception: YES (this seems fairly universal)

Dimension Manipulation: NOPE

Energy Kinesis: YES (Gotta have pyrokinesis!)

Machine Symbiosis: YES - I think this is an obvious one after Virus, but I'm not sure about before Virus (it really explains Lucan though doesn't it?). In the Golden Age, the Zhos are just getting into this big time. A nasty surprise during the 5FW when the experimental ships show up.

Personal Enhancement: YES (it seems weird at first, but it might play nicely especially for NPCs)

Projection: YES - (Every Impies nightmare... Zho spies love it)

Psionic Attack/Psionic Defense - YES - (Gotta have Pain Projection!)

Ship Integration - NO (This is too much IMHO)

Tapping - YES - (This makes sense, maybe even as a Basic Talent)

Temporal Manipulation - NOPE (not going there!)

I didn't see the Droyne/Chirper ability of Invisibility... That should have been in there. I will be adding that somewhere.

Anyone else have different opinions?

 

[EDG]

Machine Symbiosis: YES - I think this is an obvious one after Virus, but I'm not sure about before Virus (it really explains Lucan though doesn't it?).

Lucan was just a "Ghost" though (in 1248), wasn't he? i.e. an uploaded personality, who was then copied onto the main computers of multiple ships.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

True, but this makes a nice alternative. Buried somewhere within one of the ships is the real Lucan all trussed up to a computer ala B5 Telepaths. I guess I just like the image... :wink:

 

[Dave Chase]

As I pointed out there, several pages ago, the issue of "Traveller: Setting or Mechanics?" appears to be behind most of the current objections.

I have to admit that I am really unable to understand why this could be
a reason for any heated argument.

For some, Traveller is the Third Imperium setting, for others it is the ru-
les system - so where is the problem ? :?

Let's don't forget the
Bold Beat Stick of Death

And he and I became friends after that. But that was all over Cannon or not Cannon issues, to include what publications were considered cannon.
(Note: I never finished responding to him because of no longer be allowed access over there.)

Dave Chase

 

[GypsyComet]

all over Cannon or not Cannon issues

:?

Three 'n's is the "Last Argument of Kings".
Two 'n's is what Priests and Fans argue over.

 

[Dave Chase]

all over Cannon or not Cannon issues

:?

Three 'n's is the "Last Argument of Kings".
Two 'n's is what Priests and Fans argue over.

That was part of the joke/rub of the issue.

Spelling things out that sound the same said. :lol:

Canon, Cannon, and it's all part of Grandfather's great big lie.

I, for one am glad that PSI rules are out. In one way, its the magic with out the 'magic' for SciFi games.

(Oh, and sorry about the above post being more off topic again. I did that before I read all of the new posts for the day. Sorry.)

Dave Chase

 

[Gaidheal]

So... I'm kind of tempted to go there, create an account and make my first post:

My thoughts on Traveller?  Nice rules system, pity about the background... but at least with new official version from Mongoose I can just dump all the horrible kludge and concentrate on the essence of Traveller.

:¬)

Anyway, on Psion: I see I'm not alone with my opinion on the topic generally (as opposed to the implementation specifically in this book) and I agree that B5 is where I would look to find some good calls on powers and mechanics that I'd be happy to use or even actually like.

 

[rust]

So... I'm kind of tempted to go there, create an account and make my first post ...

A nice idea, but not really worth the effort - all you have to do is wait.

When I registered there, around the time when Mongoose Traveller
was published, they had almost 800 active members, now they have
just ca. 650 left, and the number keeps going down with each of the
anti-Mongoose outbreaks.

Psion ... I am almost sure I will not buy or use that one, psionics do
not really fit into my current setting and campaign - at least not be-
yond abilities like a weak form of animal empathy.

 

[captainjack23]

So... I'm kind of tempted to go there, create an account and make my first post ...

A nice idea, but not really worth the effort - all you have to do is wait.

When I registered there, around the time when Mongoose Traveller
was published, they had almost 800 active members, now they have
just ca. 650 left, and the number keeps going down with each of the
anti-Mongoose outbreaks.

Sad but true. Although, consider that the five fusskateers are less than 1% of the whole shebang - there are quite a few useful current threads for general traveller, and even good stuff in the MGT section. Just avoid obvious tarpit titles.

 

[rust]

Sad but true.

Indeed. It feels a bit like watching a train accident happen.