Prohibited Items in Ship Searches

[spidersrepublic]

So if the PCs are in a system where assault rifles and above are prohibited, and they are hailed by a naval ship, and searched, what happens if the search party finds prohibited items?

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

can you just leave your weapons on your ship, or will you be arrested the moment an illegal item is found aboard?

 

[locarno24]

Law Levels are for worlds - because each world will vary.
The only things the Imperial Navy would sieze is something that contravenes Imperial Law (unlicensed nukes, anagathics, manportable artillery, etc).

Equally, startown/highport stations are theoretically imperial territory, so leaving your ACR in the docking bay should be fine.

The question mark comes if an SDB of a system fleet pulls a stop-and-search whilst you're inside the 100D limit that is theoretically 'local' space, because they'd be operating to local laws, not Imperial Standards. A suitably bloody-minded Local SDB captain could therefore make an argument that he's entitled to sieze your shiny toys.

To avoid this, I would assume that (in most cases) treaties allow you passage to the highport/lowport with the stuff (because the imperium has to get its TL15 stuff in and out somehow) but that your names and ship would be flagged in the database and hence any attempt to leave startown would incur greater scrutiny than would otherwise be the case...

...Of course, it's a nice legal grey area to throw trouble at your PCs when you need to.

 

[CosmicGamer]

From my MTU doc

Imperium vs Local Authority
Local officials sometimes work within Imperial areas of control and Imperial officials sometimes work within local areas of control.
Sometimes it might be one local worker who personally comes up to your ship to welcome you,and provide local info regarding trade restrictions "Do you have any questions? Enjoy your stay." Sometimes it might be a joint team with armed and armored locals right beside the Imperial inspectors and code enforcers on an Imperial customs vessel.

The way I see it, and again for me things can vary from place to place, but in many instances, both in orbit and at the star port, the Imperium works with the locals.


I'd like to give a couple possible situations.
Situation 1
a) What if there is no high port, and only a down port.
b) What if the system has laws against a certain thing and it is illegal to use, have and trade it there although it is not Illegal by Imperial standards. Lets say, combat drugs.
c) What if the system decides they don't even want such items to be transported within their airspace. The reason doesn't matter, but here is a good one: smugglers were making deliveries by air dropping the cargo out the airlock.

I think in most cases the Imperium is not going to enforce local laws within local air space when no Imperial law is broken. I'm pretty sure locals are allowed to enforce local laws within local air space.

Technically, if you are with me on the above, the locals could very well have the ability to stop and inspect (maybe ground at a military base instead of the Imperial port) or turn away a ship that tries to enter their air space. Do you think (does canon address this) it is possible/legal for locals to prevent a ship from even going to the star port since it is a downport?

Situation 2
Same as 1 but
a) The system has a high port too.
d) The system decides they don't want the combat drugs within the space (d limit) the Imperium allows them to enforce.

Shouldn't locals have the ability to stop and inspect and turn away a ship that tries to enter any and all areas that the Imperium allows them to control?

Is the Imperium going to interfere with the locals policies?

As locarno24 said

To avoid this, I would assume that (in most cases) treaties allow you passage to the highport/lowport with the stuff (because the imperium has to get its TL15 stuff in and out somehow) but that your names and ship would be flagged in the database and hence any attempt to leave startown would incur greater scrutiny than would otherwise be the case...

...Of course, it's a nice legal grey area to throw trouble at your PCs when you need to.

and the last from my doc

Even in cases where the locals are heavy handed and even deadly in regards to those that stray from their rules, is there any reason the Imperium would interfere - other than the well known generic "the Imperium is about maintaining trade". The Imperium is also about letting worlds do their own thing. Maybe the world gets yellow or amber zoned to warn the travelers if things are bad enough.

 

[Galadrion]

...Of course, even where items may be legal, it doesn't mean they're unregulated. So, how thoroughly do your PCs document their licensing? Even a legal-to-own assault rifle, if the PCs haven't touched all the paperwork bases, can get them in trouble. It all depends on how evil you (as either the Referee or as the NPC official) are feeling.

Something else to consider: just how does the authority figure choose to respond? Sure, he can look on the contraband item as a personal possession, and throw the book at the individual owner... but what if he decides to look on the matter as smuggling? Real-world smugglers, when caught, are often looking at not only the loss of the contraband, but ship impoundment, arrest for all crew members (at the authority's discretion), trials, a Court of Assizes, and (assuming the crew in general is found not guilty) one heck of a lot of paperwork to get everything sorted out... assuming the crew decides to fight it out legally. If they decide to pursue other options, well, that's a potential jailbreak adventure, grand theft starship to get their ship back, life as a fugitive/renegade crew (hey, A-Team-style adventures, anyone? Or adventures on the other side of the skip-tracing rules?), maybe a reason for the party to get into jumpcussing/piracy... there are many, many ways the campaign can go from here.

 

[AdrianH]

I can't see how this can work in practice. If local law extends to interplanetary space then anyone with enough personal firepower to survive routine business on a law level 1 world is likely to have it confiscated when they go to a law level 9 world. Likewise, paperwork is going to be a nonsense if the ACR isn't regulated by Imperial law and the PC bought it somewhere that has no paperwork.

The way I'd play it is that Imperial law rules all the way to the starport boundary. Expect to be searched or scanned for illegal stuff when you leave the starport, but provided you don't try to take your PGMP off the starship, you won't get into trouble.

As for smugglers dropping contraband from low orbit, you can expect to be given an approach vector to the starport. If you deviate from that, or if the starport sensors detect something falling from your ship, the authorities will want to know why.

Now, on the other hand, some over-zealous local official might decide to try to board and search the ship and confiscate anything violating local law. A PC with high SOC might then report to his friends in high Imperial circles, who then talk to people in local government circles, who then have words with the over-zealous official, the latter words including the word "unemployment". Or a PC with extensive legal knowledge might be able to stand up to the official and quote the exact page and paragraph of Imperial law which says the official has no right to take anything and will be reported to the Imperium for piracy if he tries. So if your player group has either of these types of character then I'd be inclined to do it for all-round amusement value.

Talking of piracy, it's always possible that the SDB demanding to search your ship and confiscate all your portable weapons is in fact a pirate...

 

[Boneguard]

The way I look at it, it kind of solve the problem: Custom/duty Free area on Spaceport (be it in orbit or on the ground) like in modern airport.

Some item might be legal under Imperial Law (which apply to space) but not legal planetside. However until the PC has gone through Custom and declared what he has with him, he's not -legally speaking- on the planet yet...he's technically still under Imperial Law.

At this point the Custom officier can either:

1) Turn him back to his Ship and order them to leave the planet or leave the 'illegal' item in the ship;
2) Keep the item in a special safebox and the PC can recover it;
3) Seize and Confiscate it.

That's what Canada do whwn American try to cross the border with handguns/rifles in their car (Legal in the USA but illegal in Canada). They give them a Choice to eirther return home or Canada Border Service seize the weapon and the owbner never sees it anymore.

 

[F33D]

So if the PCs are in a system where assault rifles and above are prohibited, and they are hailed by a naval ship, and searched, what happens if the search party finds prohibited items?

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

can you just leave your weapons on your ship, or will you be arrested the moment an illegal item is found aboard?

If a ship is going from jump directly to the Imperial starport, the "locals" have no jurisdiction over what you are carrying unless it violates IMPERIAL law. Period.

Planetary customs only comes into play if you try to leave the Imperial controlled starport to set foot on the planet. Otherwise, they play no part.

 

[GypsyComet]

So if the PCs are in a system where assault rifles and above are prohibited, and they are hailed by a naval ship, and searched, what happens if the search party finds prohibited items?

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

can you just leave your weapons on your ship, or will you be arrested the moment an illegal item is found aboard?

If a ship is going from jump directly to the Imperial starport, the "locals" have no jurisdiction over what you are carrying unless it violates IMPERIAL law. Period.

Planetary customs only comes into play if you try to leave the Imperial controlled starport to set foot on the planet. Otherwise, they play no part.

Or you decide to circumvent the starport altogether, at which point you are a smuggler...

A ship with cargo for another world that would be illegal on this one will have that cargo's seals and manifests inspected. Probably more than once.

 

[dragoner]

So if the PCs are in a system where assault rifles and above are prohibited, and they are hailed by a naval ship, and searched, what happens if the search party finds prohibited items?

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

can you just leave your weapons on your ship, or will you be arrested the moment an illegal item is found aboard?

Most likely record and tag the weapons so that they aren't sold illegally in system, maybe schedule an exit inspection. Though most searches are just scans by sophisticated sensors, which can be accomplished quickly.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

According to Mongoose Traveller Core Rules:

Starports operate according to Imperial law (equivalent to Law Level 1 for most items, and Law Level 7 for psionics). - Core Rule Book p179

 

[F33D]

Or you decide to circumvent the starport altogether, at which point you are a smuggler...

A ship with cargo for another world that would be illegal on this one will have that cargo's seals and manifests inspected. Probably more than once.

That's what I mean by "setting foot" on the planet. As far as inspecting sealed cargo, that's done at the ports unless, you stray from where your ship is supposed to be.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

So if the PCs are in a system where assault rifles and above are prohibited, and they are hailed by a naval ship, and searched, what happens if the search party finds prohibited items?

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

can you just leave your weapons on your ship, or will you be arrested the moment an illegal item is found aboard?

I allow PCs and NPCs to act in whatever way makes a story situation more interesting.

 

[CosmicGamer]

The way I'd play it is that Imperial law rules all the way to the starport boundary. Expect to be searched or scanned for illegal stuff when you leave the starport, but provided you don't try to take your PGMP off the starship, you won't get into trouble.

As for smugglers dropping contraband from low orbit, you can expect to be given an approach vector to the starport. If you deviate from that, or if the starport sensors detect something falling from your ship, the authorities will want to know why.

But those local authorities have no jurisdiction at the star port and under your premise, the ship is off limits coming and going? That is an imperial matter and, even if the star port is a class D and there are no Imperial forces in system the locals can't do anything?

 

[GJD]

GURPS Traveller had the idea of starships being able to claim extrality, or extraterritoriality, for part or all of the ship. The idea is that anything inside a an area designated as extrality remains outside of the remit of local laws, so if your ACR is illegal, leave it in the ships locker and declare the ships locker as extrality. SHips could theoretically declare the whole ship as extrality, but then probably wouldn't get docking clearance. Depending on the tech and law levels, extrality areas can be sealed either physically or electronically to stop them being accessed while planetside.

The same idea also applies to a starport, which has Imperial laws, and the rest of the planet. There's an extrality line inside which imperial law applies, and outside of which local law applies.

G.

 

[CosmicGamer]

If a ship is going from jump directly to the Imperial starport, the "locals" have no jurisdiction over what you are carrying unless it violates IMPERIAL law. Period.

So IYTU locals have no say in what is and isn't allowed to travel through their air space? Locals have no rights to do customs checks - that is all Imperial? And, of course, the Imperial customs check, if it is large enough for there to support such Imperial organizations, does nothing regarding what is illegal locally...

So what if a ship is going straight from Jump to a space port? At what point can the locals take control IYTU?

 

[Boneguard]

The way I'd play it is that Imperial law rules all the way to the starport boundary. Expect to be searched or scanned for illegal stuff when you leave the starport, but provided you don't try to take your PGMP off the starship, you won't get into trouble.

As for smugglers dropping contraband from low orbit, you can expect to be given an approach vector to the starport. If you deviate from that, or if the starport sensors detect something falling from your ship, the authorities will want to know why.

But those local authorities have no jurisdiction at the star port and under your premise, the ship is off limits coming and going? That is an imperial matter and, even if the star port is a class D and there are no Imperial forces in system the locals can't do anything?

Well the local Forces could be deputized under Imperial law to take care of problem in the Spaceport.

I live right on a Provincial border -which happen to also be the border between 2 cities. Normally police of one city/province can not pursuit any 'criminal' across the border as it is a different juridiction. But -every year- they perform a deputizing ceremony in both city that grant the authority to pursuit and arrest on both side of the border.

A similar case could be performed here for Class D port.

 

[CosmicGamer]

A ship with cargo for another world that would be illegal on this one will have that cargo's seals and manifests inspected.

I can see some problems when thousands of worlds have different paperwork and seals and standards. I guess all cargoes are reinspected and sealed and have paperwork done at the star port and adhere to Imperial standards? What about systems that have class E and D star ports that may not have this functionality in place?

"Sorry. No paperwork. I got this cargo at Boondock in the Middle of Nowhere sub sector. Why does the Imperium care, it's not illegal? Oh, locally it is, I knew that, but it aint leaving my ship. Trust me."

As far as inspecting sealed cargo, that's done at the ports unless, you stray from where your ship is supposed to be.

So no customs ships meeting with questionable incoming ships or doing random checks before they enter atmo and land at the star port?

 

[F33D]

Well the local Forces could be deputized under Imperial law to take care of problem in the Spaceport.

I live right on a Provincial border -which happen to also be the border between 2 cities. Normally police of one city/province can not pursuit any 'criminal' across the border as it is a different juridiction. But -every year- they perform a deputizing ceremony in both city that grant the authority to pursuit and arrest on both side of the border.

A similar case could be performed here for Class D port.

The MgT Spinward Marches book covers this. The Imperium can authorize them to enforce Imperial law. As you state.

 

[rust]

Are law levels for the world only, or do they extend to all ships passing through the system?

The standard situation is that the law level is for the mainworld only.
However, unless the Imperium believes in a somewhat stupid "one
size fits all" policy, there will most probably be exceptions for unusu-
al local circumstances. For example, imagine a mainworld which is an
asteroid belt where a starship travelling from the jump exit point to an
Imperial starport has to pass between a number of inhabited asteroids,
on a flight path that is actually "inside" the mainworld and its jurisdic-
tion. In such exceptional cases the Imperial authorities will probably
negotiate some kind of agreement or treaty with the local authorities,
with a content that is likely to depend on the political and economic
strength of the system - a small bunch of belters will be treated diffe-
rently than a powerful megacorporation.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Well the local Forces could be deputized under Imperial law to take care of problem in the Spaceport.

Surely possible. As I indicated earlier, IMTU the Imperials and locals do work together and have some overlap.

My point is that in the rules as written, folks are free to do what they want in their own TU, the locals do already have jurisdiction of their airspace and even space out to a certain d limit. But according to some, they give this up due to some undetailed in the rules as written treaty or obligation to allow ships to pass through to the Imperial star port and now need more unwritten rules to give them back some of the rights when the star port and Imperial organizations in system are not sufficient to the task. All this to let them do what they should have already had the jurisdiction to do?

Again, feel free to do what you want IYTU. I'm just discussing things.