Pre-Generated Characters

soltakss

Cosmic Mongoose
Having battled my way through the process of generating a few sample characters for Merrie England, I thought there must be a better way of doing this.

So, I have written a rough bulk character generator. It's written in Progress, for several reasons (It's the language I know best; It handles tables better than any other language that I know; I have it at home), which means that the code won't help anyone and I can't make it available as a download (well I can but it won't be of much use).

As a test, I generated 200 sample characters, with random levels if experience, random backgrounds and random professions, but I can pre-select those if I need to.

The generated sample characters is at:
http://www.soltakss.com/samplecharacter.html and the data that I used is at
http://www.soltakss.com/chargendata.txt.

By the very nature of randomly rolled characters, it does throw up a few oddities. For example, an Arctic Fisherman has Craft (Blacksmith) because the crafts are not linked by background.

The data used came from the RQ Deluxe SRD with a few extra skills thrown in from the RQ Game Masters Guide. I haven't yet included the professions from Spellbook, but there's no reason why I can't.

Because I am using a datafile to hold the raw data, this means that I can specify different datasets for different settings. Once I have nailed things down precisely, I'll be using it to generate some characters for Merrie England using the Nationality/Background/Profession combinations from that supplement. But, there's no reason why I can't use another dataset to generate characters from other settings. All I need to do is to add/delete/change the Backgrounds/Professions/Skills/Lists and tweak the code to take into account anything new.

Things are very generic, for example I have Language 1, Language 2, Language 3 and Language 4 as Languages. In a setting specific generation, those would be nailed down.

Now that I have it working, I need some feedback.

The layout is similar to that used in Merrie England and Crusaders of the Amber Shore and seems easy to read. What else needs to be included and what don't you like about it?

I haven't included Runes because I still am not exactly sure how they work in RQM and also because Runes are setting specific. Should I include Runes and, if so, how should I include them? Should runes be random or should they be more focussed?

What about magic? Should I include Runemagic, tied to Runes? What about Divine Magic and Sorcery? They seem to be very setting-specific, so what works for Glorantha would not work for Merrie England, in fact what works for the West of Glorantha doesn't work for the centre.

I haven't included the Manipulation skills from Sorcery as they are not specified in any of the Magic Using professions. Should I include a Sorcerer profession that has Manipulations?

Similarly, I haven't included Enchantments for the same reason. Should I build those in as well?

I haven't included equipment, specifically armour. Should I do so? If so, should the characters come ready supplied or should they buy equipment from their available cash? Should they have detailed equipment lists or just a summary of armour etc?

Should Crafts be linked to background/culture? If I go down that route, should weapons and armour be linked in a similar way?

In general,
What am I missing?
What don't you like about the characters generated?
What needs changing?

Is a list of pre-generated characters like this useful?
Would it be better organised sorted into Professions, Backgrounds or Levels?
Is it better being random or would you prefer certain backgrounds and certain professions?
 
soltakss said:
The layout is similar to that used in Merrie England and Crusaders of the Amber Shore and seems easy to read. What else needs to be included and what don't you like about it?
Excellent work. I think the layout's pretty good. One of my beefs with Mongoose is the incredibly inefficient NPC stat blocks.

On the basis that what you need from an NPC is just enough information for PCs to fight it, talk to ut or run away from it then the skills given can probably be rationalised down further. A hard thing to do is to be able to put all the individual lores, languages and crafts together
e.g. Lores (Animal 27%, Plant 23%, Tactics 42%) etc

What I like for my NPC stats is to have the three resistance stats (dodge, persistence & resilience) pulled out and put to the top. I also like any magical skills put in a separate block for magic.

soltakss said:
I haven't included Runes because I still am not exactly sure how they work in RQM and also because Runes are setting specific. Should I include Runes and, if so, how should I include them? Should runes be random or should they be more focussed?

Going to depend on the background isn't it and how RQ2 - if and when it happens - treats runes. If you're using runes in Merrie Englande (possibly using a different runic alphabet and making them very rare) then it makes sense to associate just a small selection to each profession and, if possible, to apply their effects to stats.

soltakss said:
What about magic? Should I include Runemagic, tied to Runes? What about Divine Magic and Sorcery? They seem to be very setting-specific, so what works for Glorantha would not work for Merrie England, in fact what works for the West of Glorantha doesn't work for the centre.

As with runes it's so setting specific that I'm not sure I would bother. However: if you add in generic magic then at least you can ignore it in play.

soltakss said:
I haven't included the Manipulation skills from Sorcery as they are not specified in any of the Magic Using professions. Should I include a Sorcerer profession that has Manipulations?

Similarly, I haven't included Enchantments for the same reason. Should I build those in as well?

The manipulation problem is a problem with the RQ rulebook sources. I personally would update the professions. Enchantments (and exceptional items) would be nice.

One thing I noticed from eyeballing the stats is that the characteristics seem rather large. This tends to be the case in the published supplements too. It's a little unfair on players if they use a point-buy system only to find supposedly equivalent NPCs with much higher characteristics.

Is this useful? As a big piece of paper not really but if broken down into categories definitely yes.

One thing that is a long-time failing of RQ is that the creatures given have always been the equivalent of starting characters. Being able to go to a resource and find generic states for a veteran Broo animist, a novice broo raider and a novice broo bruiser so I can quickly pull together a raiding party of 10 broo would be really useful. Your program makes a start on that for humans.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Deleriad said:
Excellent work. I think the layout's pretty good. One of my beefs with Mongoose is the incredibly inefficient NPC stat blocks.

I based it on Paolo's layout, so the credit is his.

Deleriad said:
On the basis that what you need from an NPC is just enough information for PCs to fight it, talk to ut or run away from it then the skills given can probably be rationalised down further. A hard thing to do is to be able to put all the individual lores, languages and crafts together
e.g. Lores (Animal 27%, Plant 23%, Tactics 42%) etc

Would that be useful? I'd find it confusing. There's no problem in grouping skills like that.

Deleriad said:
What I like for my NPC stats is to have the three resistance stats (dodge, persistence & resilience) pulled out and put to the top. I also like any magical skills put in a separate block for magic.

Splitting out Runecasting, Manipulation and Sorcery Spells shouldn't be a problem. Similarly, splitting out the three resistance skills is easy enough.

Deleriad said:
soltakss said:
I haven't included Runes because I still am not exactly sure how they work in RQM and also because Runes are setting specific. Should I include Runes and, if so, how should I include them? Should runes be random or should they be more focussed?

Going to depend on the background isn't it and how RQ2 - if and when it happens - treats runes. If you're using runes in Merrie Englande (possibly using a different runic alphabet and making them very rare) then it makes sense to associate just a small selection to each profession and, if possible, to apply their effects to stats.

Merie England does not use Runes, but Crusaders of the Amber Shore will do - the idea being that Pagans use Runes and Christians don't. Since Merrie England is, in the main, a Christian country then Runes don't come into it.

The latest version uses the standard runes for those professions that have the Runecasting skill.

Deleriad said:
soltakss said:
What about magic? Should I include Runemagic, tied to Runes? What about Divine Magic and Sorcery? They seem to be very setting-specific, so what works for Glorantha would not work for Merrie England, in fact what works for the West of Glorantha doesn't work for the centre.

Deleriad said:
As with runes it's so setting specific that I'm not sure I would bother. However: if you add in generic magic then at least you can ignore it in play.

Hmm, I'll have to read the rules section on magic to see how much magic NPCs get.

Deleriad said:
soltakss said:
I haven't included the Manipulation skills from Sorcery as they are not specified in any of the Magic Using professions. Should I include a Sorcerer profession that has Manipulations?

Similarly, I haven't included Enchantments for the same reason. Should I build those in as well?

The manipulation problem is a problem with the RQ rulebook sources. I personally would update the professions. Enchantments (and exceptional items) would be nice.

Maybe they are in the RQ Spellbook or GameMasters Book professions. I'll have to have a look. My gut feeling is that the professions haven't been updated.

Deleriad said:
One thing I noticed from eyeballing the stats is that the characteristics seem rather large. This tends to be the case in the published supplements too. It's a little unfair on players if they use a point-buy system only to find supposedly equivalent NPCs with much higher characteristics.

The characteristics are high for several reasons:
1. They use the 4D6 best 3 method which produces slightly better characteristics
2. Some Levels give boosts to characteristics

I can certainly turn off the 4D6 best 3 to see how that works.

Deleriad said:
Is this useful? As a big piece of paper not really but if broken down into categories definitely yes.

The big piece of paper is a proof of concept, really. It could be broken up into categories fairly easily.

Deleriad said:
One thing that is a long-time failing of RQ is that the creatures given have always been the equivalent of starting characters. Being able to go to a resource and find generic states for a veteran Broo animist, a novice broo raider and a novice broo bruiser so I can quickly pull together a raiding party of 10 broo would be really useful. Your program makes a start on that for humans.

Yes, that's the whole idea. At the moment it uses humans but it shouldn't be a big problem to use other races, although the keying of the datafile is a real longwinded pain in the backside of a process.

Since it could be useful I'll soldier on and enhance it slightly.
 
soltakss said:
Since it could be useful I'll soldier on and enhance it slightly.

It's definitely useful and Im looking forward to seeing it develop. There are some online PC generators for RQ but this looks to be more comprehensive.
 
Deleriad wrote:

Excellent work. I think the layout's pretty good. One of my beefs with Mongoose is the incredibly inefficient NPC stat blocks.



I based it on Paolo's layout, so the credit is his.

For an alternative you might like to have a look at the Stats Block I developed for the soloquests - have a look on DriveThru - http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=63655 - you can view it without buying (altho' buying is better...)

I tried to summarise the NPC with the information that is needed and split into a logical format that is also easy to read. I've had some good feedback about this although I need to add weapon APs. Feel free to plunder if it helps.

Deleriad wrote:

soltakss wrote:

I haven't included the Manipulation skills from Sorcery as they are not specified in any of the Magic Using professions. Should I include a Sorcerer profession that has Manipulations?

Similarly, I haven't included Enchantments for the same reason. Should I build those in as well?


The manipulation problem is a problem with the RQ rulebook sources. I personally would update the professions. Enchantments (and exceptional items) would be nice.



Maybe they are in the RQ Spellbook or GameMasters Book professions. I'll have to have a look. My gut feeling is that the professions haven't been updated.

Your gut is right Simon. The professions are largely as they were although some attempt has been made to update them in the Spellbook but isn't explicit about (Specific) Theology, Summoning (for Shamans) or Enchant. The professions need a complete overhaul especially in relation to all the new skills introduced in GM HandBook like Culture, Meditation (incredibly useful), Insight, Alchemy and so on.
 
soltakss said:
Lord High Munchkin said:
Looks very good... a useful thing indeed!

You maybe however might want to make sure you don't duplicate your effort with the 'RQ Enemy Editor' http://runequest.aamunkoitto.net/enemyeditor/index.php.

That's the kind iof thing I am aiming for, except not with a web interface.

I didn't even know this existed. Why hasn't it been publicised more?

It was the subject of a thread awhile back, but things just often slip out of focus...
 
I've updated the chargen.txt file with the professions and backgrounds from Sceaptune Games' Collected Character and the professions and backgrounds from RQ Spellbook.

Having gone into professions and backgrounds in detail, I couldn't help notice several things:
  • Mongoose have introduced skills and not updated professions
    Mongoose have also introduced professions and not used skills from other supplements (E.g. The Enchanter profession does not have the Enchanting skill from RQ Gamesmaster's Book)
    Professions have widely different extra skills with some having large increases and many skills and others having small increases and few skills
    Backgrounds and professions seem a bit slapdash, scattered around various supplements and not having a cohesive whole
    Very few professions have Sorcery Spells (only in RQ Spellbook), none have Divine Magic and none have Rune Spells
So, to tidy up professions, I think RQ needs to have the following:
  • Skill Lists need updating with the new skills
    Some professions might need balancing, with extra skills added
    Spells need adding to professions, with rules for Divine Magic and Runemagic as well as Sorcery
    For campaigns that use Folk Magic, that needs adding as well


Still, the rules as they stand can generate useful NPCs.

When I have generated the characters, I have included Specialist Skills. These are the skills that professions concentrate on. I have allocated 40% of the Free Skill Points to these skills and the remaining 60% to all the skills. This means that those skills are boosted over and above the others, which makes sense to me as it gives some focus on particular skills without making them too large.

Anyway, comments and criticism are welcome.
 
soltakss said:
So, to tidy up professions, I think RQ needs to have the following:
  • Skill Lists need updating with the new skills
    Some professions might need balancing, with extra skills added
    Spells need adding to professions, with rules for Divine Magic and Runemagic as well as Sorcery
    For campaigns that use Folk Magic, that needs adding as well

Excellent work and I agree completely about what needs doing.
 
Skill Lists need updating with the new skills
Some professions might need balancing, with extra skills added
Spells need adding to professions, with rules for Divine Magic and Runemagic as well as Sorcery
For campaigns that use Folk Magic, that needs adding as well

I think this is right. Even if you pulled together all the existing material on backgrounds and professions into one place this would still not solve the wider issue of magic in char gen. For my money (and I'm happy to accept its an RQII, RQIII hang-up) I want my starting characters - all of them - to have access to magic.

A further problem is the limited amount of skill points assigned during MRQ char gen. You get 110 points (or equivalent) for Background and 50 points (or equivalent) for your profession. The 110 points includes the 20 you "spend" acquiring your own language and knowledge of the place you grew up... Of course you do then get 100 free skill points so overall you are spending 240 (90+50+100) skill points on shaping your character. In BRP this total is 350 (250+100). Under RQIII it was 33 x your age over 15 on 2D6 which gave a range of between 66 (meh) and 396 with a average around 231. On the face of it RQII and MRQ seem to give the same amount of experience to starting characters but in RQIII you then got to add Shaman, Initiate or Student experience on top which also gave you access to starting magic.

The first thing I have done is to abandon the MRQ stated skill bonuses for the professions and have broadened the range of skills available to professions but keeping the 90/50 rule in place. This means that players can shape their characters more - e.g. a thief character could have some professional skill in dodge or dagger if they were imagined as cutpurse or in 1H club if imagined as a thuggish rogue and so on.

The second change I've made is to introduce something called magical heritage which is largely dictated by background (Civilised get Sorcery or Divine, Primitive get Spirit etc).

Spirit Magic

Your character knows the Summoning Skill and starts with a base chance equal to POW + CHA. Over the years your character has been taught 1D6 points of magnitude in spells from the Shaman and through practice and research has gained an additional 20 skill points in his or her Summoning skill. Your character has “paid” for learning this magic through time, effort and assistance rendered to the Shaman over the years.

Divine Magic

Your character has been brought up in the faith and knows Lore (Specific Theology) with a base chance equal to INT. He or she can be an initiate of their cult if they meet the basic requirements otherwise they are a lay member at the start of play. Worship and study has added 20 skill points to your base Lore (Specific Theology) skill. During your character’s upbringing they have acquired 1D6 points of magnitude of cult magic which can be either cult Rune or Divine Magic. Your character has “paid” for learning this magic through devotions, gifts and assistance rendered to the temple over the years.

Sorcery

Your character was brought up around practitioners of sorcery and has picked up some basic ability in sorcerous magic. Your character knows the Manipulation (Magnitude) skill with a base chance equal to INT + POW. In addition he or she has picked up 1D3 sorcery spells with a base chance equal to INT + POW. Study and application has added 20 skill points to Manipulation (Magnitude) or to the known sorcery spells. Your character has “paid” for this teaching through time and assistance rendered to the sorcerer over the years.

This doesn't use GFC to manage rune magic as I continue to play the simple casting cult rune magic thru' Lore (Specific Theology) fix.

It has the effect of adding the equivalent of 30 skill points to char gen which doesn't seem too much. Sorcerors get 40 skill points but this doesn't overpower them and they get fewer spells to mess about with. I further rule that free skill points can't be added to the magical heritage - magic is a specialist area requiring detailed study (unlike, say, getting better at singing or punching someone).

Now, to make sure that the truly magical professions stand out from the hoi polloi I allow them to add their professional experience and free skill points allocations to their magical skills.

These changes keep it resembling MRQ with the background and professions which I like but add some flexibility and allows the game to feel closer to the RuneQuest we were familiar with where everyone has a little bit o' magic.

I'll be publishing these char gen options soon including the professions changes I have made but I'd be interested to hear what people think of this approach to magic.
 
Inspector Zero said:
On the face of it RQII and MRQ seem to give the same amount of experience to starting characters but in RQIII you then got to add Shaman, Initiate or Student experience on top which also gave you access to starting magic.
Do remember that MRQ allows characters to start at different experience levels. An average veteran character in their mid-20's is pretty much the equivalent of a RQ3 character in their mid-20's.

Inspector Zero said:
I'll be publishing these char gen options soon including the professions changes I have made but I'd be interested to hear what people think of this approach to magic.

I personally don't like the everyone starts with magic approach. The vast majority of RQ3 I ran was in settings where only specialists had access to magic. Everyone knowing some magic is fine for Glorantha but not for 95% of other fantasy worlds and a generic char gen system needs to be pretty modular. My rather simple fix for MRQ char gen is to allow characters to start new advanced skills (including magic skills) from their free skill points and to be able to buy magic with starting money in addition to what they start with from their profession if any. That way everyone can start with magic but doesn't have to. I ignore the integrated runes bit of magical professions.

For Glorantha all PCs get access to three runecasting skills as common skills representing the runes they have been born with and I give them an additional +20% to spend on those runes.
 
That's very odd. I regenerated the list, put in an index and transferred them. Maybe I renamed the file incorrectly. I'll try and have a look this evening.
 
soltakss said:
That's very odd. I regenerated the list, put in an index and transferred them. Maybe I renamed the file incorrectly. I'll try and have a look this evening.

That would be awesome. Thanks.
S.
 
soltakss said:
Drat! Curse Unix and it's case-sensitivity.

It's OK now.

Thanks. Very interesting range of characters. I plan to use them not only as NPCs but also as pregen PCs for one shot games.

Smiorgan
 
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