Powers & Principalities - Preview

Ripple said:
Went and re-read it before commenting.

On the fighter thing... I hate that it's being said that there was no other choice. Other choices were presented, the closest one to the current rule was that you add up all dead fighters at the end of a game and count flights up to the number of wings purchased for VPs, exactly as if a ship of the appropriate level.

Would have removed record keeping for all but campaign games. Would have removed the odd distinction of 'suicide' ship launched fighters and 'valuable' purchased fighters. How often do we have to see flights running for the corner to preserve a vp or two while a dozen other flights attack, or even odder, ships specifically attacking only purchased flights while surrounded by a swarm of 'free' flights.

Overall pretty good, though I still think the Halik variant will make a lot of bore sighted fleets completely helpless. Just how does a Drazi player attack a Brakiri player now. Range control is much easier for the Brakiri or you might have a good chance of sniping one or two out.
The real problem is that even though your suggestion is simpler, it's not balanced. Flights that come with ships are paid for in the mothership's cost and therefore the mothership is often weaker or easier to kill than other ships of the same PL. Therefore there has to be some give and this is where the paid/free flight debate comes in.

Although it's a little annoying, there's no more bookkeeping than a player has to do right at this very moment.
 
How about just count the number of paid for flights, and the first flights destroyed always count as the paid for ones? Removes all record keeping and as Ripple pointed out, avoids the ludicrous scenario that all guns point towards one flight that is worth a VP whereas the swarm of free ones is ignored.
 
Burger said:
How about just count the number of paid for flights, and the first flights destroyed always count as the paid for ones? Removes all record keeping and as Ripple pointed out, avoids the ludicrous scenario that all guns point towards one flight that is worth a VP whereas the swarm of free ones is ignored.
That's the same as Ripples suggestion and my reply would be the same as my one above. It's not an ideal world certainly however even with the scenario you suggest, if you take an EA fleet as an example, the EA player would still take all of his paid for flights as the same type (e.g. Aurora) and take all of the free flights as another (e.g. Thunderbolt). This would still leave the same issue as before.
 
Triggy said:
Ripple said:
Went and re-read it before commenting.

On the fighter thing... I hate that it's being said that there was no other choice. Other choices were presented, the closest one to the current rule was that you add up all dead fighters at the end of a game and count flights up to the number of wings purchased for VPs, exactly as if a ship of the appropriate level.

Would have removed record keeping for all but campaign games. Would have removed the odd distinction of 'suicide' ship launched fighters and 'valuable' purchased fighters. How often do we have to see flights running for the corner to preserve a vp or two while a dozen other flights attack, or even odder, ships specifically attacking only purchased flights while surrounded by a swarm of 'free' flights.

Overall pretty good, though I still think the Halik variant will make a lot of bore sighted fleets completely helpless. Just how does a Drazi player attack a Brakiri player now. Range control is much easier for the Brakiri or you might have a good chance of sniping one or two out.
The real problem is that even though your suggestion is simpler, it's not balanced. Flights that come with ships are paid for in the mothership's cost and therefore the mothership is often weaker or easier to kill than other ships of the same PL. Therefore there has to be some give and this is where the paid/free flight debate comes in.

Although it's a little annoying, there's no more bookkeeping than a player has to do right at this very moment.

Without a points system, or at least a transparent PL system, it's very difficult to say that flights are or are not 'paid for'. Many of the ships, especially variants of the same base (Sharlin for example) seem to have no internal balance in terms of what you get for the same points, let alone comparing between fleets.
 
Alexb83 said:
Many of the ships, especially variants of the same base (Sharlin for example) seem to have no internal balance in terms of what you get for the same points, let alone comparing between fleets.
Indeed!

Compared to a standard Sharlin, a Sharkaan gets triple damage lasers, but loses 2 ADs. The laser is a little longer range, but the secondaries on the P, S and A arcs lose ADs. So far so good, all seems balanced. But then it loses 2 Nials and a Flyer, AF is reduced by 1 and it loses 2 troops!
 
Burger said:
Alexb83 said:
Many of the ships, especially variants of the same base (Sharlin for example) seem to have no internal balance in terms of what you get for the same points, let alone comparing between fleets.
Indeed!

Compared to a standard Sharlin, a Sharkaan gets triple damage lasers, but loses 2 ADs. The laser is a little longer range, but the secondaries on the P, S and A arcs lose ADs. So far so good, all seems balanced. But then it loses 2 Nials and a Flyer, AF is reduced by 1 and it loses 2 troops!
Believe it or not this was a deliberate part of balancing of the Sharlin Variants. Whether you think it's balanced or not is another matter but either way, the Sharlin, Sharkaan and Sharoos all were designed to perform similarly on a battlefield and therefore ought to contribute to VPs equally too.
 
Triggy said:
Burger said:
Alexb83 said:
Many of the ships, especially variants of the same base (Sharlin for example) seem to have no internal balance in terms of what you get for the same points, let alone comparing between fleets.
Indeed!

Compared to a standard Sharlin, a Sharkaan gets triple damage lasers, but loses 2 ADs. The laser is a little longer range, but the secondaries on the P, S and A arcs lose ADs. So far so good, all seems balanced. But then it loses 2 Nials and a Flyer, AF is reduced by 1 and it loses 2 troops!
Believe it or not this was a deliberate part of balancing of the Sharlin Variants. Whether you think it's balanced or not is another matter but either way, the Sharlin, Sharkaan and Sharoos all were designed to perform similarly on a battlefield and therefore ought to contribute to VPs equally too.

See now, I would dispute that they are of equal value. For me as a player there is simply no choice in taking a variant of either the Sharlin or Tinashi (except the raid Tinashi variant, the Ashinata - and the Esharan was always a complete joke).
The basic ships simply offer more, the variants offer minor dubious advantages whilst giving up masses.

It all comes back to the problems with the lack of transparency in the PL system - there are no clear cut values for range/ad/traits, and I don't have any confidence that identical ships/weapons would sit at the same PL between fleets.
 
lastbesthope said:
So, the big question as far as I'm concerned, will P&P be available to buy at Dragonmeet on the 19th?
And my big question, given Mongoose's proactive support for PDF as "books of the future", will the PDF be released smultaneously with the printed version?
 
Burger said:
And my big question, given Mongoose's proactive support for PDF as "books of the future", will the PDF be released smultaneously with the printed version?

No.

PDFs probably are books of the future, but I personally hope that future is a long way off. . .
 
Doh.

Any chance of a free PDF to purchasers of the book, then? I'd much prefer to get the PDF (easier to put my PSP in my pocket than a pile of books), but if that is released a month after the book, it won't be in time for the May campaign. So I'll need to get the book... and rather not buy the same thing twice, as you've said in another thread a great proportion of the cost is for the content, which I will have already bought!
 
Burger said:
Any chance of a free PDF to purchasers of the book, then?

Drop me a line when the book is released, and we'll work something out. I am sure we can do something for the gentleman whose Beam System is included in P&P :)
 
Is there a firm release date for the P&P book yet? I have my pre-order in, but im curious as to when to expect it.
 
Na-Po said:
A new beam system ? ;-)
Sounds just very good :)
Most likely it'll be under optional rules, same as the S&P article. From the P&P info page, "...along with optional rules suggested on our forums".
 
P&P seems to have disappeared from the upcoming releases, and I can't find it in the online store for pre-order??? In fact, at present it looks like there's nothing in April, since the upcoming releases is only listing books to be published in May - hopefully this is just a website glitch? (or perhaps an April Fool!) ;)

Regards,

Dave
 
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