Popular Multiclasses?

[Clovenhoof]

Hey folks,

haven't been around for a while, mainly because our gaming group was on hiatus after our most capable player was no longer able to participate on our gaming nights. But now we're about to resume our campaign with fresh blood in the ranks.

For starters, I'd like to ask you about your experiences with multiclassing in Conan RPG. How common is it in your group, did you do it yourself, and of course, what do you think are good combos?

I'd like to know for mainly two reasons: a) to advise my players (which are new to the world of D20) and b) to build nice crunchy villains adhering to the rules.

So far I have come up with the following theories:

Barbarian: is best be left alone, to achieve the incredible payoff ability of Triple Threat Range With Anything He Picks Up.
Might also be a decent Minor MC with about 5 levels of Barbarian, never more than six due to weapon feat restrictions.

Borderer: since he doesn't have a must-have payoff ability, this one seems to a good MC choice for about 11 levels of Borderer to achieve the Combat Style Mastery, and maybe 2-3 extra levels for FT or bonus feats.

Noble: none of my players even had a look at this class beyond seeing the name, and it can't be freely taking as extra class without RP background, so I'll leave it for the time being.

Nomad: not sure about this one. As a pure or major class, it seems to be really good in its native environment and when a mount is available. It might mix well with Barbarian or Borderer, or even Pirate, still able to achieve Mounted Mobility with these.

Pirate: seems to mix well with both a Fighter class (to improve BAB) and/or Thief (for extra Sneak). Barbarian might not be such a good idea because of several identical abilities.

Scholar: again, my players didn't look at the class at all, but a powerful sorcerer is probably best levelled as Scholar all the way.

Soldier: this class is just _made_ for multiclassing, as at some point you won't know what other feats to take. May be a good complement for Pirate and/or Thief, or to refine any Non-Barbarian's combat style.

Thief: also seems to be predestined for Multiclassing, because he lacks several things: a unique payoff ability, inherent Two-Weapon Combat that goes so well with sneak attacks, and the Mobilty and Uncanny Dodge chains that are so important for lightly-armoured characters.
Should mix well with anything, especially Borderer, Pirate and Soldier.

So much for my theories. Now for your input. Thanks in advance. =)

 

[VincentDarlage]

My advice can be found in the three books "Hyboria's Fiercest", "Hyboria's Finest" and "Hyboria's Fallen." I analyze the pros and cons of the two-class combos throughout those books (and one larger multiclass combo in the latter book).

 

[Axerules]

Hey folks,

For starters, I'd like to ask you about your experiences with multiclassing in Conan RPG. How common is it in your group, did you do it yourself, and of course, what do you think are good combos?

I'd like to know for mainly two reasons: a) to advise my players (which are new to the world of D20) and b) to build nice crunchy villains adhering to the rules.

My advice can be found in the three books "Hyboria's Fiercest", "Hyboria's Finest" and "Hyboria's Fallen."

• Hello Clovenhoof ! Do you own the Hyboria's F's books ? Some of the problems of multiclassing (like duplicated abilities) are solved if you use the variant rules provided.

• One of my PC's used the Brawler (I'm not sure about the name, I don't have my RPG's books at hand) Barbarian/Soldier (or is it Soldier/Barbarian ?) multiclass combo. In my games players don't keep their weapons between scenarios, and can start stories with a lot of gear or with nothing save a loincloth and so he's happy to have always his favorite ones, his fists. He's also a Howard fan and he liked REH's Boxing stories (I haven't read them).

• Another player used the Pride of the Nomad multiclass variant, and he really liked it too.

• I do agree with you about the Soldier, it is better to multiclass him with some other class, IMO 20th level Soldiers are not interesting.

 

[Etepete]

We dont use/own the Hyborias F. series (our loss, I know ) but we do a lot of multiclassing, since what class you pick for each level is story-driven. Even though we allow for sticking to you current class even if you're a barbarian finding yourself on the high seas. But overall our pirate style campaign has lead to massive multiclassign into pirate from barbarian, noble and thief.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Thanks for the replies, I don't have the F-books (yet). Conan material is not readily available where I live. It would be so much easier if I could purchase the supplements as PDF.

I'm now making a master chart similar to the class skill table, just for all the other class abilities from BAB over proficiencies to Specials. So I/we won't have to flick the pages so much when I want to look up if Class X gets Y. I should have done that long ago. ^^

BTW, would it be okay to make that table available for the public, or would that be problematic with the copyrights?
It looks like this:

___ | Bbn | Bor | Nob | ...
BAB | Full | Full | Low | ...
...
TWC | + | + | - | ...

 

[blackenedwings]

My advice can be found in the three books "Hyboria's Fiercest", "Hyboria's Finest" and "Hyboria's Fallen." I analyze the pros and cons of the two-class combos throughout those books (and one larger multiclass combo in the latter book).

By the way Vincent, those books are awesome. My campaign just started tonight, and those books provided SO much help to my brand new Conan players. I personally think the Hyboria's Fallen book is one of the best splatbooks for any system, but the player playing a Noble really liked the Finest book.

 

[Spectator]

I am somewhat of a non-multiclasser in most cases, however I think if I were to do it, I would do the the soldier thief build, put in about 5-8 level of solfier and then hit thief with a vengeance. Grat HP, good feats and skills. Not having read any of Hyboria's f----est series what would that combo be called and characterized as?

 

[Krushnak]

when i convince one of my players to run a conan based game i plan to make a barbarian/pirate- reaver. you dont lose out on uncanny dodge and mobility as both classes have it and it stacks up, complement fighting madness with ferocious attack and general barbarian awesomeness with sneak attack.

 

[Clovenhoof]

@Spectator: Soldier/Thief should blend nicely, it's going to be very similar to Fighter/Rogue of D&D, which always was a good choice if you kept a few caveats in mind.

From a numbercrunching, pardon, character optimization perspective, it is advisable that you always take levels of 3/4 BAB classes in increments of 4. Like, 4 levels of Thief, not 5, because you'd lose another BAB that way.

Conan RPG has the great idea that features like Mobility come at the same levels for all benefited classes, so while that rules out "Take 2 levels of Barb for Uncanny Dodge", you can mix and match just the way you need it.

I experimented last night and realized that, when you optimize your MC regarding BAB and Specials, you are likely to lose out on Dodge and Parry as well as Will Save.

For example, a sample Bbn5/Bor5/Pir4/Thf4/Sol2 would get BAB 18, at least 3 dice of Sneak Attack, Mobility (and if you do it right, Improved Mobility), Improved Uncanny Dodge, Improved TWF, and 2 Bonus Feats, BUT have only a mediocre Dodge/Parry 11/8 and a crappy Will save of 4.
So class dipping definitely has its drawbacks.

What I'd be interested in is a Borderer-MC that really shines with two weapons and can survive out of doors without a babysitter. I'm still fiddling with that one.
Current state is that he should have 11 levels of Borderer to receive ITWF and Reflexive Parry, some Soldier for Bonus Feats, and probably Thief to trade 1 BAB for 3-4 Sneak Attack. Still have to do the maths there.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I am somewhat of a non-multiclasser in most cases, however I think if I were to do it, I would do the the soldier thief build, put in about 5-8 level of solfier and then hit thief with a vengeance. Grat HP, good feats and skills. Not having read any of Hyboria's f----est series what would that combo be called and characterized as?

In Hyboria's Finest, I called the soldier/thief the Assassin. It offers the variant rule of Death Attack, along with some other advice on feat choices and skill choices.

In Hyboria's Fallen, I called the thief/soldier a Minder. Basically he is the bodyguard of a crime lord or fence. He comes with a variant rule called the Face Down.

In The Free Companies, I called the soldier/thief a Guerrilla. He comes with the variant rules of Take Cover and Close Quarters Fighting.

 

[VincentDarlage]

By the way Vincent, those books are awesome. My campaign just started tonight, and those books provided SO much help to my brand new Conan players. I personally think the Hyboria's Fallen book is one of the best splatbooks for any system, but the player playing a Noble really liked the Finest book.

Thank you.

 

[VincentDarlage]

What I'd be interested in is a Borderer-MC that really shines with two weapons and can survive out of doors without a babysitter. I'm still fiddling with that one.

I am not a character optimizer (max-min person), but a character concept person. From my perspective, a savage scout (barbarian/borderer) with the sure footed variant rule might work.

The wild hunter (borderer/barbarian) with the Power Attack combat style and class skill variant probably not so much.

The skirmisher (borderer/soldier) with the flexible combat style variants and/or the skirmisher combat style might do the trick nicely.

The outlaw (borderer/thief) with the favored sneak attack (sneak attacks while on favoured terrain) variant rule (the one in a million variant rule is better for archers, not two-weapon attackers) would also work well.

 

[Valgrim Bragisson]

I once drew up a Multiclass for a Nemedian Borderer that maxed out at Bord 12/Sold4/Thief4. Very similar to what you want. My guy was supposed to be a Crossbowman, with the Nemedian Arbalasteer Combat Style. I maxed him out at Bord 12 instead of 11 to get the extra boost to FT. The additional regional Combat Styles in Hyborias Fiercest are very helpful for customizing the Borderer.
Dispense with the Arbalast, take the Two Weapon Combat Style, and you're golden! 8)


MP

 

[Bjorn the Barbarian]

I am also a big fan of the various Hyboria's "F" books. I have found them to be indispensable. Vincent did a very good job on them. I found several uses for the Temptress class as NPCs to throw at my players.

The campaign I am just starting up has a Siren (Temptress/Pirate) shanghaiing the players on her quest to soon discover "things man was not meant to know". :twisted:

 

[VincentDarlage]

Thank you.

 

[Kyorou]

I found several uses for the Temptress class as NPCs to throw at my players.

As PCs, Temptresses are a lot of fun too. In my games, the temptress also proved to be quite an asset to the group (she gathered a fair load of intel).

 

[Ichabod]

As the rules are written, if I wanted to game the system, I'd start every character off as a thief.

Though, seemingly unlike a lot of people who post, I don't seem to be terribly worried about what my 20th level character will look like. I'm a lot more concerned with what my 8th level character would be capable of.

I actually don't see a great need to multiclass out of thief as you do get unique abilities which may not be insanely powerful but are interesting. You will have defensive issues, but you should be able to find a nice niche to fill with your ungodly number of skill ranks and "if I can sneak attack you, you're dead" feature. If you must, four levels of barbarian to get Fearless, Uncanny Dodge, TWF is okay.

I'd just ignore the borderer and nomad classes as being grossly inferior to barbarian, if you only care about mechanics. My problem is that I don't find it terribly realistic from a story standpoint that every combatcentric character is going to be a barbarian. I see a lot of soldier splash, but I think people are overlooking the weaknesses of soldier (i.e. sucking at everything besides combat).

Temptress is way better than noble if you want to go a social route no matter whether you multiclass or not.

Scholar has a lot of unique benefits (gee, look, I can now defensive blast), but my inclination would be to focus on scholar (after first level).

Thief to pirate seems pretty hot such that I created a wastrel character. I don't think I'd multiclass much with pirate otherwise, though. Barbarian doesn't need the pirate abilities. Scholar has synergy issues. A fighty temptress would get a lot more sneak attack from thief.

Summarizing, purely from a mechanics standpoint, I'd be inclined toward:
1. Thief/Barbarian
2. Thief/Pirate
3. Thief/Scholar
4. Thief/Temptress
...
N. Thief/Soldier if I just had to bother with soldier.

But, then, I think some of the classes are completely overshadowed or close enough by other classes that a lot of combinations are unproductive.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I don't seem to be terribly worried about what my 20th level character will look like. I'm a lot more concerned with what my 8th level character would be capable of.

The quick and easy path leads to the Dark Side of the Force...
of course, character planning depends on how long you intend to play. Are you ever going to hit 20? And if so, how long are you going to keep playing that character then? If your group is wont to retire a party as soon as everyone hits level 20, it is of course pointless to work towards payoff abilities, and more important to be good as early as possible.

Thief/Barbarian is probably a good idea. You get some BAB boost and other nice boons. I'd consider taking the Mobility feat at some point, so when you hit Barb 5 it stacks up to Improved Mobility, which is great for a Thief to have (Hit and Run tactics). In the long run, I'd recommend 6 levels of Barb altogether.

Thief/Pirate is a mixed lot, you get some extra Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge, but it doesn't help your BAB, especially not if you also want Mobility.

I can't say much about Scholar, except that I have learned in D&D that you should avoid the combination "spellcaster(a lot)/something else(a little)". This may or may not apply to Conan, I have no idea.

A Thief/Soldier combo is possible, it just won't be much of a Thief anymore. I suggest a Dual Wielder (Shortswords) with Improved Feint. Essentially a swordmaster who can sneak attack a lot. 6 Soldier levels should do the trick. At level 14, you can get Reflexive Parry.
Should turn out quite nicely, I think. ^_^