Pooling of Fighter AD´s

[Goldritter]

Do I understand it right, that I must roll attack for every Fighterflight seperatly, even if some Flights attack the same target ?

If yes, what do you think about follwing (house) rule ?

If Fighterflights which attack the same Target, you cann add all AD´s from one weaponsysten together and roll them together.

So if 4 Flights of Thunderbolts attack the same target, you don´t roll 2 AD for the Gatlingcannon and then 2 AD with AP for the Missiles for the first Flight, and the 2AD and 2 AD AP for the second and so on.

Insteat you roll once 8 AD for all Gatlingcannons and then 8 AD AP for the Missiles.



I think this will speed up the game a lot, if you use many Fighters.

 

[madpax]

Yes, that's what I do unless some particular trait is affecting the attacks, like the GEG.

Marc

 

[Goldritter]

Yes. I´ve hought about this too.

But on the other side, if 24 Thunderbolts attack one Drakh ship at the same time I could imagine, that the GEG has some Problems .

(And it would minimize the Fighter Imunity of GEG Vessels, I imagine.)

 

[Greg Smith]

You might as wll roll all the dice together unless the target has GEG or Adaptive Armour.

 

[Ripple]

Not true, you have to roll each flight separately because of 'lose a trait' crits and crippled thresholds (possibly removing dodge, interceptors, stealth etc).

I'm not certain by I thought each flight was treated as a separate weapon line, thus allowing the lose of certain defenses between shots. Or in the case of interceptors/shields, degradation of those defenses.

Ripple

 

[angelus2000]

Its a trade of between accuracy/strict following of the rules verse speed. Yes, technically your supposed to roll each and every 1-4Ad weapons per flight seperately, and with 1-3 fighters not such a problem. Ganging up 10-15 T-Bolts on a single ship in a large would eat up an enormous amount of time(Roll 2 dice, score damage, repeat ad nasuem). I'd pass on the possible cripple and lose traits part just in the interest of saving time.

 

[Banichi]

Its a trade of between accuracy/strict following of the rules verse speed. Yes, technically your supposed to roll each and every 1-4Ad weapons per flight seperately, and with 1-3 fighters not such a problem. Ganging up 10-15 T-Bolts on a single ship in a large would eat up an enormous amount of time(Roll 2 dice, score damage, repeat ad nasuem). I'd pass on the possible cripple and lose traits part just in the interest of saving time.

I'm not sure any drakk players would agree with you on this. GEG is just about the only protection they have against flights. If I was playing against the drakk I wouldn't want to lose the ability of flights to cause crits against them. It's all most flights are good for in a game against drakk.

 

[angelus2000]

Excepting GEG from my previous statement. Near as I can tell, GEG is the only defensive traits that works on a per weapons system basis. AA, Ints, Shields, and dodge only care about hits, and stealth is either a yes or no, which means you just add up all the fighters and roll stealth for all of them at once, and merely count up and roll collectively for all the fighters that beat stealth

 

[Triggy]

Excepting GEG from my previous statement. Near as I can tell, GEG is the only defensive traits that works on a per weapons system basis. AA, Ints, Shields, and dodge only care about hits, and stealth is either a yes or no, which means you just add up all the fighters and roll stealth for all of them at once, and merely count up and roll collectively for all the fighters that beat stealth

Adaptive armour is also very important to roll the dice separately for. If you cause one damage against AA then you will still cause one damage but if you roll three damage, AA will reduce it to one point of damage. This makes a big difference and also makes most fighters very effective at taking on ships with AA (and indeed is a weakness of ships like White Stars and Vorlons).

 

[Goldritter]

Its a trade of between accuracy/strict following of the rules verse speed. Yes, technically your supposed to roll each and every 1-4Ad weapons per flight seperately, and with 1-3 fighters not such a problem. Ganging up 10-15 T-Bolts on a single ship in a large would eat up an enormous amount of time(Roll 2 dice, score damage, repeat ad nasuem). I'd pass on the possible cripple and lose traits part just in the interest of saving time.

I'm not sure any drakk players would agree with you on this. GEG is just about the only protection they have against flights. If I was playing against the drakk I wouldn't want to lose the ability of flights to cause crits against them. It's all most flights are good for in a game against drakk.

All Hits which cause a crit ignore the GEG.

So the GEG can´t help you to reduce crits.
It only counts against "normal" damge.

 

[Greg Smith]

Not true, you have to roll each flight separately because of 'lose a trait' crits and crippled thresholds (possibly removing dodge, interceptors, stealth etc).

You are right. Each flight is treated as a separate weapon. And you are also correct that you should roll each flight separately for crippled and critical effects.

I'm not certain by I thought each flight was treated as a separate weapon line, thus allowing the lose of certain defenses between shots. Or in the case of interceptors/shields, degradation of those defenses.

Ripple

For interceptors and shields it doesn't matter whether you score your hits individually or separately. For some ships you can safely roll your fighter dice together - the Ka'toc for example.

 

[Goldritter]

It's all most flights are good for in a game against drakk.

I must say, I´ve never done anything with fighters against Drakh Ships.
Espacially the Raider with combination of Dodge and GEG.

I play mainly EA and there the Drakh Ships are realy immune to Fighters.
(Excpetion I got a critical crit, which is realy rare.)

 

[jimmor]

4 T-bolts will score usually 7 hits on light raider and 10 hits on the heavy one. It means you get a critic or two. And in case of raider even a critic (-1AD) halves it's firepower. Not to mention that 4 T-bolts are patrol choice and raider is a skirmish.

The power of fighters however is not based on their ability to destroy drakh ships. It's about drakhs being unable to harm swarms of fighters in any way: they don't have their own fighters, don't have antifighter, don't have EM, their raiders and destroyers lack secondary bateries, their main wepons are designedto fight ships (low AD, B,DD,P). All they do have is a passive defence system that gives them hope of surviving long enough to make it to your carriers. Send one day a fleet of pure bomber choices against a drakh player and see his expression when he realizes that he is to face 80 T-bolt flights...

 

[Iain McGhee]

I'd agree that if a ship has no defences other than armour that you could just roll all the fighter AD together. Better not to if a ship has Interceptors or Shields as a lucky critical from a flight could knock them out completely.

 

[stryve]

I don't see how shields would make a difference. You can't crit till they're gone, and once they are you don't have to worry about them until the next firing phase.

 

[Iain McGhee]

True enough. Shows you how long it's been since my Abbai had an airing. Just as well the boxed set only cost me £18

 

[Ripple]

Not all flights have single damage weapons, a shield takes damage differently depending on the damage multiplier. Thus it does make a difference as a flight might end oddly.

Same thing with interceptors, if all AD are the same on all flights it doesn't matter, but otherwise you have to do each flight as you might stop 'better' AD before some others.

Just saying....lots of wheels...stop and work through them all before you grab dice...it surprising how often 'something can happen' that would actually make a difference. Given how one AD getting through that shouldn't have can change the game with a good crit, its a big deal.

Ripple

 

[Methos5000]

My group has always grouped the fighter dice of the same type together against captial ships. I can see how shields and interceptors could change the matter now especially since more fighters seem to have DD weapons now do it can make a difference. Some fighters you can group irregardless of what they are facing though. Thorun Dartfighters and Falkosi interceptors for example both have 1AD weapons and thats it. So it doesn't matter if you roll all of them even against AA or GEG since each die is a seperate volley anyway.

 

[Triggy]

My group has always grouped the fighter dice of the same type together against captial ships. I can see how shields and interceptors could change the matter now especially since more fighters seem to have DD weapons now do it can make a difference. Some fighters you can group irregardless of what they are facing though. Thorun Dartfighters and Falkosi interceptors for example both have 1AD weapons and thats it. So it doesn't matter if you roll all of them even against AA or GEG since each die is a seperate volley anyway.

Actually, it could still make a difference if one shot took down the interceptors/GEG by losing a trait/crippling the target ship. Not to mention ships on CBD going to skeleton crew.

Even on a shot where nothing appears to change, if you get a lucky critical and kill the target, the extra dice may take the target into the realms of blowing up and this means just about any flight (if not any weapon system) needs to be rolled individually.

 

[Methos5000]

Thats true...I'm still coming to terms with trait loss through crits in the game. It's one of the changes that made crits a little too deadly IMO. I know the trait that is lost is random but a person in my group plays Vorlons and I think in every fight he has been in he has lost AA at least once.