Poll on RPG.net for what system is best for Conan gaming

[LucaCherstich]

The main difference between our means of supporting the 'Goose is that I've never threatened them they 'll lose me and my players as customers if they ever change anything. Something you do quite regularly...

I'm one of those pro-d20 who threatens Mongooses to stop buying in case they switch system.

I think this is a fair and appropriate method to use.

I really appreciate Mongoose work (especially regarding Conan) but, after all, this is the real world and sourcebooks cost money.

We are speaking of business here.
They are the producers, I'm a customer.

Thus far their policy (at least to me) is been "Good Conan d20 products" so I bought them all, but my policy is "no play-no buy".

I do not play Runequest.
So if they make Conan RQ I stop buying it.
Mathematical.
That's business, man.

But we spoke of these things too many times before...

 

[kintire]

So why did you add some combustible to the fire, k?

because I like flatscan, and he's already been the victim of one of the more unpleasant insults I've seen on this board... from Herve.

Hervé wasn't even talking to you.

so? I wasn't talking to YOU either. Care to explain why you're allowed to "butt in" but I'm not?

So you admit that your message was deliberately inflamatory?

Just as inflammatory as herve's... which you didn't raise a peep about, I notice. Funny, that.

 

[Axerules]

because I like flatscan, and he's already been the victim of one of the more unpleasant insults I've seen on this board... from Herve.

And so it allows YOU to insult Hervé? :?: :shock:

so? I wasn't talking to YOU either. Care to explain why you're allowed to "butt in" but I'm not?

I didn't write anything inflamatory or impolite in this thread, as opposed to YOU.



So, let me recap. In your opinion, Hervé did a bad thing. So, you consider that it gives you every right to insult him.

Then, by the same logic, if I think that you wrote something inflamatory (you even admitted it yourself) would it give ME free license to insult you whenever I want?
Don't bother answering: it was a rethorical question. I don't want to offend anyone.
Just a remark: I fear the day when a majority of the forum members will follow the same reasoning.

Just as inflammatory as herve's... which you didn't raise a peep about, I notice. Funny, that.

Contrary to a person involved in (and, probably sometimes responsible of) numerous 'flamefests' here and on the AoC boards, who even admitted today EXPECTING to incite one deliberately, Hervé is not used to write condescending remarks or sarcams to me.
BTW, since my opinion is asked: I've NEVER said that I supported Hervé's message, I don't.

 

[Hervé]

Don't even bother answering these moronic messages, axerules. He just don't deserve it. He's been using the same lousy methods on every forum he goes. I suppose it helps him feeling important. he's just pathetic.

Note anyway that I didn't insult Flatscan.

I just commented Flatscan post which implied (more or less) than only D20 supporters were loyal Mongoose supporters, something I don't agree with. If Flatscan wants to answer, I'm sure he doesnt need anyone to do it, especially someone who'll give his posts a bad name.

He has proven by the past that his comments had more depth than anything kintire has ever posted...

The conversation remained polite until kintire jumped in. Same old sad story as usual...

 

[kintire]

so? I wasn't talking to YOU either. Care to explain why you're allowed to "butt in" but I'm not?
I didn't write anything inflamatory or impolite in this thread, as opposed to YOU.

Not quite my point. I commented to Herve about a post he made to flaatscan. You then commented to me on a post I made to Herve: complaining that the post I commented on was not made to me. I'm simply pointing out that you were criticising me for answering a post not made to me... while doing that selfsamee thing yourself. I found it amusing

So, let me recap. In your opinion, Hervé did a bad thing. So, you consider that it gives you every right to insult him.

Not quite. I don't insult Herve just because. However, he has in the past been very unpleasant to anyone who doesn't agree with him, while at the same time objecting when anybody else says anything remotely construable as rude. That DOES give me, or anyone else, the right to call him on that kind of behaviour. Such as, for example, complaining that people are threatening Mongoose into keeping Conan d20.

Then, by the same logic, if I think that you wrote something inflamatory (you even admitted it yourself) would it give ME free license to insult you whenever I want?

If I write something inflammatory and then complain when people get inflamed, or when someone else does exactly the same thing I did, then yes, by all means weigh in!

who even admitted today EXPECTING to incite one deliberately

I did not. I pointed out, repeatedly, that one had already been incited: although I make no claim to any attempt to cool it down of course.

I just commented Flatscan post which implied (more or less) than only D20 supporters were loyal Mongoose supporters, something I don't agree with.

It said that he was tired of defending Mongoose Conan on the Mongoose Conan boards. Presumeably, he was referring to posts like this one:

I just noticed that the thread was called Conan MRQ and that it was-yet again-assaulted by D20 activists. We already had "What if Conan leaves for another system", 36 pages of D20 terrorism, that was so far the last of never ending threads of "my D20 is bigger than yours", that kept on appearing on this forum all over the years.

Be careful; playing D20 too much can damage your brain...

Very polite.

 

[flatscan]

However, other gamers have a free choice and they like their own systems and that's great too. No one choice is inherently right or wrong - people choose different systems for different reasons.

I agree, people can play anything they want to play. I have no issues with this. The issue I have is that such an excellent game and line such as Mongoose's Conan gets slammed on by users on this site. Each supplement has brought something to my game and enhanced it. The flavor, the rules, all of it work and they work extremely well. I guess if I was a RuneQuest fan I'd long for the game to be made with that system, but as some have pointed out I (and others like me) will not re-invest in the same game with different rules. The reason should be obvious, I've already invested hundreds of dollars, not to mention the time and effort it takes to prep and run sessions as well as keep a blog for it. I know I'm not alone in this and the peeps at Mongoose have already stated the Conan line is still selling well. Why try to "fix" what's not broken?

Anyway, BoL was never written for Conan - it was written totally for Thongor - I appreciate he was a Conan rip-off/pastiche so it is fair enough that my system could be used for Conan.

And that right there is the main reason I won't touch it. Out of curiosity does BoL have deus ex machina rules to cover every situation the PCs encounter? Because that's how I remember Thongor getting out of every predicament he was in. I don't like Lin Carter's writings. His Conan writings with L Sprague de Chump are even worse. Just my opinion but that's the main reason I have no interest in BoL.

Anyay, enough of that BoL came out a joint winner - not bad for a PoS indy game! :wink:

Good luck to you and your game man. Obviously there are a lot of people that like it so congrats!!!

 

[flatscan]

Ack, the tone of this thread got more hostile than I intended. But passions run high with gaming. I mean, we all spend enough hours in this hobby we love so that should come as no surprise.

I just commented Flatscan post which implied (more or less) than only D20 supporters were loyal Mongoose supporters, something I don't agree with. If Flatscan wants to answer, I'm sure he doesnt need anyone to do it, especially someone who'll give his posts a bad name.

Herve, if you dislike d20 so much don't play it. Convert your game to BoL or RuneQuest or something you do like. What I was referring to was the monthly threads that gets started like clockwork contributed to by the same group of people slamming the current system in favor for whatever system of the month comes up. It really seems like it's "anything but OGL." But there are enough of us out there playing and enjoying this game for Mongoose to continue supporting it. Note, I don't post in those threads any longer because it's pointless. You have the games you like and I have mine. There just isn't much overlap. I'll never convince you that OGL/d20 works well (and the only OGL/d20 game I play is Conan btw) and you'll never convince me RuneQuest/BRP is the way to go. So it goes.

 

[Axerules]

he has in the past been very unpleasant to anyone who doesn't agree with him, while at the same time objecting when anybody else says anything remotely construable as rude.

You too.

That DOES give me, or anyone else, the right to call him on that kind of behaviour. Such as, for example, complaining that people are threatening Mongoose into keeping Conan d20.

So, every member of this forum has every right to insult you, because YOU made sarcastic and/or insulting comments several times, on this very board.

If I write something inflammatory and then complain when people get inflamed, or when someone else does exactly the same thing I did, then yes, by all means weigh in!

Why changing your standards?

YOU deemed Hervé's words unacceptable and decided on your own that it gave you the right to insult him. Everyone on this forum should, then, have the authorization to do the same to you at every available opportunity when/if he considers that one of your posts is inflammatory. And the one you wrote yesterday was.

although I make no claim to any attempt to cool it down of course

You reap what you sow.
Don't tell us you did anything FOR Flatscan (who seems less shocked than you by Hervé's words), it is easy to see that it was a pretext.

You got exactly what you aimed for, a trashy thread and a flamefest with Hervé. Enjoy! Another 'internet struggle' to add to your incredibly long and ever-growing record!

 

[flatscan]

Don't tell us you did anything FOR Flatscan (who seems less shocked than you by Hervé's words), it is easy to see that it was a pretext.

Well, Herve and I have done this song and dance many times in the past. He has made harsh comments but so have I. The lack of tone of voice on the internet makes it far too easy to take offense at something written. I try to shrug it off and keep on with my day. As I said earlier, we gamers are passionate about our hobby, especially on the internets. Kintire and I see eye to eye on Conan being an excellent game that doesn't need to be in another ruleset. Hell there have already been existing rules sets (TSR, GURPS) and none have garnered the amount of success that the Mongoose line has. Herve and I can disagree and that's ok. I just won't invite him to play in my games and vice versa I'm sure. :wink:

 

[Strom]

Man - you guys haven't seen anything unless you have seen flatscan go off about the new Dark Horse comic Conan the Cimmerian. Everyone on the forum just starts ducking cause flatscan is throwing so many haymakers! :lol:

I call bunk on the RPGnet poll as well - c'mon! We were not born yesterday - somebody is buying the Mongoose Conan stuff for - count 'em - 5 years - who the hell is supporting this line? And I seriously doubt most of the customers are just buying the books for flavor so Thongor can smack the villain of the week. Nothing against the system in the lead but the margin of error has to be around 10-15% on that poll.

 

[AKAmra]

The main difference between our means of supporting the 'Goose is that I've never threatened them they 'll lose me and my players as customers if they ever change anything. Something you do quite regularly...

I'm one of those pro-d20 who threatens Mongooses to stop buying in case they switch system.

I think this is a fair and appropriate method to use.

I really appreciate Mongoose work (especially regarding Conan) but, after all, this is the real world and sourcebooks cost money.

We are speaking of business here.
They are the producers, I'm a customer.

Thus far their policy (at least to me) is been "Good Conan d20 products" so I bought them all, but my policy is "no play-no buy".

I do not play Runequest.
So if they make Conan RQ I stop buying it.
Mathematical.
That's business, man.

But we spoke of these things too many times before...

I think that a poster using the "I won't buy your stuff" is a little childish. But, in case your right, I stopped buying d20 Conan stuff quite a while ago because the d20 mechanics takes up way too much space. So, I'll even you out by saying that there is no way in hell I'm buying another d20 Conan book. Mongoose, if you want my money, make MRQ Conan.

Since we even out the money thing, maybe we could just talk Conan and let Mongoose do what their gonna do.

 

[Hervé]

Flatscan wrote:

Well, Herve and I have done this song and dance many times in the past. He has made harsh comments but so have I. The lack of tone of voice on the internet makes it far too easy to take offense at something written. I try to shrug it off and keep on with my day. As I said earlier, we gamers are passionate about our hobby, especially on the internets.

Well, I agree on this. Some harsh words may have been spoken on both sides, but they were generally followed by toned-down comments. We both know when to apologize when we go a bit too far (like you just did with Simon on the BoL matter). Like you say, we're all passionate people. We may have words from time to time, we may disagree on things like the game engine, but that doesn't prevent mutual respect.

On the other hand, there are other 'round here that are behaving like big green flies, always looking for a new morsel of s**t...

I just won't invite him to play in my games and vice versa I'm sure. :wink:

Well, who knows? I really tried to give the ruleset a chance over the past years, only to find it was unadapted to our gaming group's style of play.
That does not mean I won't ever play a D20 game again. However, I must admit that the chances for me to come and have a game in Austin, Tx are rather slim! But should you ever come to sweet southern France, you'd be welcome! Aside for our passion for Conan, we at least share a thing: being both loud mouthed southerners in our respective countries! :wink:

Herve and I can disagree and that's ok.

True. Something that kintire is obviously unable to understand.

Cheers

 

[kintire]

True. Something that kintire is obviously unable to understand

Hah! Given that our differences began when you called me a fanatic for refusing to agree with you after you had told me you were right several times that's a bit rich!

Its not your opinions I object to Herve. You are perfectly entitled to those. Its the fact that you demand things of others you won't live up to yourself. Like, for example, fine sentiments about agreeing to disagree with one side of your mouth, while calling d20 fans terrorists for daring to defend Conan d20 on the Conan d20 board with the other!

 

[LucaCherstich]

Since we even out the money thing, maybe we could just talk Conan and let Mongoose do what their gonna do.

The "money argument" will be out only when books will be given FOR FREE.
This is not the case, and I love to give Mongoose my money, but only if they give me products I like.
The "money argument" is an important one since here we are not speaking of philosophy or religion, we are speaking of game products!!!
If you like it, call me childish, but I think I started noticing the money argument when I stopped to be a child buying every rpg product with my parents'money.
I would like to live for RPG but I'm not a rpg author (never had the opportunity) and thus far, in real life I'm not a Cimmerian Barbarian or a Stygian sorcerer.
So, the money argument is importat to me.

 

[AKAmra]

Since we even out the money thing, maybe we could just talk Conan and let Mongoose do what their gonna do.

The "money argument" will be out only when books will be given FOR FREE.
This is not the case, and I love to give Mongoose my money, but only if they give me products I like.
The "money argument" is an important one since here we are not speaking of philosophy or religion, we are speaking of game products!!!
If you like it, call me childish, but I think I started noticing the money argument when I stopped to be a child buying every rpg product with my parents'money.
I would like to live for RPG but I'm not a rpg author (never had the opportunity) and thus far, in real life I'm not a Cimmerian Barbarian or a Stygian sorcerer.
So, the money argument is importat to me.

Hmm, you need to read a little more carefully. Of course Mongoose will decide what they're going to do based on how they think the books will sell, that's a given, they're in the business of selling books.

My point was that you won't buy MRQ Conan books and I won't buy d20 Conan books, so it's a moot point. Of course they would lose sales to a certain number of d20 fans, and they will pick-up sales to a certain number of MRQ/BRP fans (and others, as I want MRQ Conan because I think d20 takes up to much space in crunch and MRQ will be easier to convert to the system of my choice and be easier on the eyes. MRQ/BRP isn't my system of choice anymore, but I would buy it, and maybe even run it).

Unless you can provide more sophisticated market analysis than, "I'll stop buying your Conan books if it's not d20", your posts aren't very meaningful. Do you think Mongoose has an employee counting this shat to come to a decision?

The topic of this thread was a link to a poll about the best system to run Conan with on RPG.net, not a shout out to d20 Conan fans to make meaningless threats to Mongoose that they'll stop buying books (not meaningless in that they will stop buying books, but meaningless in that Mongoose already knows that's going to happen).

If your going to quote me, address what I said, not your agenda.

 

[LucaCherstich]

Since we even out the money thing, maybe we could just talk Conan and let Mongoose do what their gonna do.

The "money argument" will be out only when books will be given FOR FREE.
This is not the case, and I love to give Mongoose my money, but only if they give me products I like.
The "money argument" is an important one since here we are not speaking of philosophy or religion, we are speaking of game products!!!
If you like it, call me childish, but I think I started noticing the money argument when I stopped to be a child buying every rpg product with my parents'money.
I would like to live for RPG but I'm not a rpg author (never had the opportunity) and thus far, in real life I'm not a Cimmerian Barbarian or a Stygian sorcerer.
So, the money argument is importat to me.

Hmm, you need to read a little more carefully. Of course Mongoose will decide what they're going to do based on how they think the books will sell, that's a given, they're in the business of selling books.

My point was that you won't buy MRQ Conan books and I won't buy d20 Conan books, so it's a moot point. Of course they would lose sales to a certain number of d20 fans, and they will pick-up sales to a certain number of MRQ/BRP fans (and others, as I want MRQ Conan because I think d20 takes up to much space in crunch and MRQ will be easier to convert to the system of my choice and be easier on the eyes. MRQ/BRP isn't my system of choice anymore, but I would buy it, and maybe even run it).

Unless you can provide more sophisticated market analysis than, "I'll stop buying your Conan books if it's not d20", your posts aren't very meaningful. Do you think Mongoose has an employee counting this shat to come to a decision?

The topic of this thread was a link to a poll about the best system to run Conan with on RPG.net, not a shout out to d20 Conan fans to make meaningless threats to Mongoose that they'll stop buying books (not meaningless in that they will stop buying books, but meaningless in that Mongoose already knows that's going to happen).

If your going to quote me, address what I said, not your agenda.

Sorry.
This possibly happens because English is not my mother tongue...and it possibly happens also because I do not care about wider market picture, but only about me and the money I spend in books.

I'm a single buyer with no power of deciding anything about other buyers.

I will stop the argument with this post...but I just had to answer something to Hervè when he said: "...The main difference between our means of supporting the 'Goose is that I've never threatened them they 'll lose me and my players as customers if they ever change anything. Something you do quite regularly... ".

Reading THAT post it looked like threatening to stop buying is something improper or vile to do.

Well, I think that making such a threat is just a customer right!

This is business!

It is true that I cannot add more arguments, but I feel that, as a customer, I have the right to say "I do not like the book, I do not buy it" . It is maybe a threat, but it is something I would do.

If you think that these forums should contain only important and meaningful posts I suppose more than half of it should be closed.

This is just a place to have some (i hope friendly) chat, and that's what I did, even if I maybe looked to be stupid or childish.

 

[AKAmra]

The "money argument" will be out only when books will be given FOR FREE.
This is not the case, and I love to give Mongoose my money, but only if they give me products I like.
The "money argument" is an important one since here we are not speaking of philosophy or religion, we are speaking of game products!!!
If you like it, call me childish, but I think I started noticing the money argument when I stopped to be a child buying every rpg product with my parents'money.
I would like to live for RPG but I'm not a rpg author (never had the opportunity) and thus far, in real life I'm not a Cimmerian Barbarian or a Stygian sorcerer.
So, the money argument is importat to me.

Hmm, you need to read a little more carefully. Of course Mongoose will decide what they're going to do based on how they think the books will sell, that's a given, they're in the business of selling books.

My point was that you won't buy MRQ Conan books and I won't buy d20 Conan books, so it's a moot point. Of course they would lose sales to a certain number of d20 fans, and they will pick-up sales to a certain number of MRQ/BRP fans (and others, as I want MRQ Conan because I think d20 takes up to much space in crunch and MRQ will be easier to convert to the system of my choice and be easier on the eyes. MRQ/BRP isn't my system of choice anymore, but I would buy it, and maybe even run it).

Unless you can provide more sophisticated market analysis than, "I'll stop buying your Conan books if it's not d20", your posts aren't very meaningful. Do you think Mongoose has an employee counting this shat to come to a decision?

The topic of this thread was a link to a poll about the best system to run Conan with on RPG.net, not a shout out to d20 Conan fans to make meaningless threats to Mongoose that they'll stop buying books (not meaningless in that they will stop buying books, but meaningless in that Mongoose already knows that's going to happen).

If your going to quote me, address what I said, not your agenda.

Sorry.
This possibly happens because English is not my mother tongue...and it possibly happens also because I do not care about wider market picture, but only about me and the money I spend in books.

I'm a single buyer with no power of deciding anything about other buyers.

I will stop the argument with this post...but I just had to answer something to Hervè when he said: "...The main difference between our means of supporting the 'Goose is that I've never threatened them they 'll lose me and my players as customers if they ever change anything. Something you do quite regularly... ".

Reading THAT post it looked like threatening to stop buying is something improper or vile to do.

Well, I think that making such a threat is just a customer right!

This is business!

It is true that I cannot add more arguments, but I feel that, as a customer, I have the right to say "I do not like the book, I do not buy it" . It is maybe a threat, but it is something I would do.

If you think that these forums should contain only important and meaningful posts I suppose more than half of it should be closed.

This is just a place to have some (i hope friendly) chat, and that's what I did, even if I maybe looked to be stupid or childish.

Of course your free to post whatever you like, within forum rules. If a language barrier caused you to misinterpret my point, then I apologize for being too harsh.

As for the poll, including "not going to happen" system choices, I'd go with GURPS 4e Conan. To me, GURPS is a crunchier, more internally logical, bell curve version of BRP. I think both systems have a similar gritty, realistic feel, with cinematic options too allow for Conan type games.

If I limit myself to a more realistic choice, I'd go MRQ Conan. The Runequest III system is what pulled me away from AD&D all those years ago. I could run a MRQ Conan game, or the books would be easier to convert to GURPS if I felt like doing the extra work.

 

[Arcadayn]

I buy everything Mongoose has put out for Conan (except for the splat books) and I have never used the D20 mechanic. I use Rolemaster Standard System and may give BRP a try sometime. Converting stats, races, classes, spells, and the flavor mechanics (reputation, corruption, fate points, etc.) is very simple.

 

[flatscan]

Aside for our passion for Conan, we at least share a thing: being both loud mouthed southerners in our respective countries! :wink:

LOL. Well that's certainly true!

 

[flatscan]

Man - you guys haven't seen anything unless you have seen flatscan go off about the new Dark Horse comic Conan the Cimmerian. Everyone on the forum just starts ducking cause flatscan is throwing so many haymakers! :lol:

Ha! I haven't seen you on the Dark Horse boards. Do you post with another name? My biggest problem with the Dark Horse works is the mangling Tim Truman does to REH's tales. Little details like named characters being omitted from scenes they were originally in to geography being stupidly wrong leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I still prefer Cary Nord and Dave Stewarts pencils and coloring to the new art team, but they're at least pushing themselves in the right direction with every issue. Truman on the other hand...well, I've got no kind words for his work. They either need to get a writer who has a better grasp of Conan's world or an editor that can keep Truman's liberties in line. His treatment of Cimmeria was sooooooooooooooo disappointing. :?