Playtesting?

[B_Steele]

1) MRQ, isn't designed for RQ players, but for new players.

Just to drop in on here for a second, as someone who has penned four MRQ books now...

I have actually sat in on sessions of our local 15 year+ RQ campaign ran by friends of mine to get a better 'feel' for RQ, so the older players are not left behind when we toss all this new stuff out at them about the past age of a game they are currently playing.

We absolutely understand the fanbase of RQ runs the gamut, and yes - we really hope that it takes off like gangbusters next week at GenCon with the newer players, but we absolutely want old fans to love it too.

In this industry, you really cannot please everyone...so you do what you feel would be best, grind your teeth, and wait for the internet buzz to stop chafing your bathing-suit parts.

Basically, I won't defend or ridicule anything to do with the system and re-defined Age of Glorantha we have put together. I know for some it will do no good at all. All I can do is ask folks to have an open mind, give it a go, and walk away if it doesn't strike their fancy.

Anyway, back to working on...oh...I can't tell you guys that! 8)

Cheers all, take care of you and yours,
Bry

 

[Rurik]

The problem with #2 is that there are very few people around who have professionally written RQ2/3 material and who don't work for/are friends with, Chaosium.

Hyrum.

Am I reading too much into this or does it imply some animosity between Mongoose and Chaosium? Can a "friend of Chaosium" not work for Mongoose without jeopardizing that friendship?

 

[mthomason]

Am I reading too much into this or does it imply some animosity between Mongoose and Chaosium? Can a "friend of Chaosium" not work for Mongoose without jeopardizing that friendship?

Given that Mongoose have basically whipped the BRP rulesset out from under Chaosium through the back door (but I have to make it clear - quite legally) and opened it up for the world to use, I can imagine why Chaosium may not be too happy about it.

 

[B_Steele]

Am I reading too much into this or does it imply some animosity between Mongoose and Chaosium?

Not that I am aware of...they are good folks, those who I met over at the Big C anyway. :wink:

Bry

 

[HyrumOWC]

The problem with #2 is that there are very few people around who have professionally written RQ2/3 material and who don't work for/are friends with, Chaosium.

Hyrum.

Am I reading too much into this or does it imply some animosity between Mongoose and Chaosium? Can a "friend of Chaosium" not work for Mongoose without jeopardizing that friendship?

I don't think there's animosity, but I do think (and this is my opinion only) that Chaosium has to be miffed. Mongoose is taking essentially their house system and making it OGL. On top of that, their #1 RPG money maker (Call of Cthulhu) draws a lot of its inspiration from material now in the public domain. Put 2 and 2 together and....

Hyrum.

 

[mthomason]

So as soon as someone does the 1920s/modern system to sit on top of the OGL'ed RuneQuest rules and writes the Horror tweaks (note: I actually thought about doing this a few weeks back and decided in the end to concentrate on a different project...)

 

[Archer]

2) MRQ was written by people who appear to have no experience in writing RQ/BRP products, but with extensive experience writing d20 products.

The problem with #2 is that there are very few people around who have professionally written RQ2/3 material and who don't work for/are friends with, Chaosium.

Hyrum.

That is a very good point.

I think Mongoose has pretty much between the hammer and the anvil here, when it comes to creating something that should "feel, look, and play" like RQ, but are not allowed to _be_ the RQ/BRP system.

 

[Enpeze]

Am I reading too much into this or does it imply some animosity between Mongoose and Chaosium? Can a "friend of Chaosium" not work for Mongoose without jeopardizing that friendship?

Given that Mongoose have basically whipped the BRP rulesset out from under Chaosium through the back door (but I have to make it clear - quite legally) and opened it up for the world to use, I can imagine why Chaosium may not be too happy about it.

I think if MRQ is able to attract fresh players to enjoy d100 games, then Chaosium could profit alot from this. If BRP/MRQ is better known and accepted to younger roleplayers, sooner or later they will try Chaosiums material too. This synergy effect could be optimized if Chaosium expands its product range to other settings than CoC.

 

[burdock]

You confuse me, man. Just say you think the system sucks and list your opinions. Why all the snide condescension?

I have not observed this attitude in Urox's posts. I sense that he is flabbergasted by some of the design decisions of the new game bearing the name "Runequest" (some of the mechanics of which have been proven to not work) and has asked questions in an attempt to clarify how such decisions could have come about.

 

[Archer]

...This synergy effect could be optimized if Chaosium expands its product range to other settings than CoC.

Something I think (note just my opinion, I have no facts to back it up) they do not have the money or the will to do.

I had a talk with Charlie Krank some years ago, when I wanted to use their Stormbringer rules for my Fantasy, Post-apocalyptic, and Science Fiction settings I am working on.
And while he was very nice, and everything looked like it was possible, albeit complicated, I was also left with the impression that there was a unwillingness on their part to print products outside their CoC line.

 

[mthomason]

I think if MRQ is able to attract fresh players to enjoy d100 games, then Chaosium could profit alot from this. If BRP/MRQ is better known and accepted to younger roleplayers, sooner or later they will try Chaosiums material too. This synergy effect could be optimized if Chaosium expands its product range to other settings than CoC.

I would tend to agree if it wasn't for the possible swamping of the BRP market that could occur once everyone and his dog comes out with an MRQ-SRD-based supplement or game (just think back to the "d20 revolution" and the shelves suddenly filling with scenarios, character class booklets, addon rules, collections of monsters, and then even complete games)

It could go either way, depending on how many publishers take up the SRD. From a possible Chaosium point of view, they had a system they could use for any setting and not be duplicated by anyone else, now there's a chance that "just anyone" can write a CoC-compatible scenario without obtaining licensing from them, and worse yet could conceivably write a product that can sit in for their own rulebook. They could lose their current "control" over their niche market.

The other thing is, if Chaosium had done it first they'd be the ones sitting in the "WotC seat" right now with the core rulebook everyone has to buy to use these SRD-ed supplements. As it is, Mongoose did it and all these products will be saying to buy the RuneQuest main rulebook.

Personally I think Chaosium's niche market is going to be threatened by this (especially when some small publishers see the CoC "back door"), but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[burdock]

hmmm..got my quote box all mixed up there

 

[Urox]

I think Mongoose has pretty much between the hammer and the anvil here, when it comes to creating something that should "feel, look, and play" like RQ, but are not allowed to _be_ the RQ/BRP system.

It's interesting that they chose to license the name RuneQuest when they are producing essentially a new product. (Kinda like new Coke of the 80s.)

I guess it has value -- I suspect you can put a $ amount on the Gloranthaphiles that will pretty much buy anything with the branding.

 

[Archer]

I think Mongoose has pretty much between the hammer and the anvil here, when it comes to creating something that should "feel, look, and play" like RQ, but are not allowed to _be_ the RQ/BRP system.

It's interesting that they chose to license the name RuneQuest when they are producing essentially a new product. (Kinda like new Coke of the 80s.)

I guess it has value -- I suspect you can put a $ amount on the Gloranthaphiles that will pretty much buy anything with the branding.

Same thing happened to a swedish RPG; Drakar och Demoner. In it's latest incarnation it has nothing in common with the original game but the name. But the name are renowned in sweden, it is as synonymous with role-playing as Dungeons & Dragons are among non-rpgers outside of sweden.

So, do not underestimate the importance of a product name.

 

[Enpeze]

I think if MRQ is able to attract fresh players to enjoy d100 games, then Chaosium could profit alot from this. If BRP/MRQ is better known and accepted to younger roleplayers, sooner or later they will try Chaosiums material too. This synergy effect could be optimized if Chaosium expands its product range to other settings than CoC.

I would tend to agree if it wasn't for the possible swamping of the BRP market that could occur once everyone and his dog comes out with an MRQ-SRD-based supplement or game (just think back to the "d20 revolution and the shelves suddenly filling with scenarios, character class booklets, addon rules, collections of monsters, and then even complete games)

It could go either way, depending on how many publishers take up the SRD. From a possible Chaosium point of view, they had a system they could use for any setting and not be duplicated by anyone else, now there's a chance that "just anyone" can write a CoC-compatible scenario without obtaining licensing from them, and worse yet could conceivably write a product that can sit in for their own rulebook. They could lose their current "control" over their niche market.

The other thing is, if Chaosium had done it first they'd be the ones sitting in the "WotC seat" right now with the core rulebook everyone has to buy to use these SRD-ed supplements. As it is, Mongoose did it and all these products will be saying to buy the RuneQuest main rulebook.

Personally I think Chaosium's niche market is going to be threatened by this (especially when some small publishers see the CoC "back door"), but we'll have to wait and see.

Of course Chaosium could screw this chance up. If they think a little bit, they could even produce their own OGL quality material and throw it on the young and expanding MRQ market. But I am sure this would be more difficult if they stick to CoC and dont expand their range of settings. Not everybody likes to play Horror or Lovecraftian Horror. They should open their mind and take their chance instead of producing the 125. "Chtulhu-Tales in Borneo" source book.

Regarding the fact everybody in a few weeks can write a CoC compatible adventure with MRQ, Chaosium can only counter that if they do something creative or they are past.

 

[mthomason]

Not everybody likes to play Horror or Lovecraftian Horror.

Very true, some of my more enjoyable games were done with the licenced Delta Green setting by Pagan Publishing.

Were that supplement written now though, the chances are they may have been able to find enough loopholes not to have to go to Chaosium for licencing.

It would be interesting to see what, exactly, out of the assorted Mythos works is in the public domain and therefore perfectly legal to use in a modernised RQ setting. I'd be very surprised if someone, somewhere, hasn't already researched it and is busy writing the book right now (and I'll just clarify right now - I'm not specifically aware of anyone that is)

 

[Archer]

Hmm, I am no legal expert, but if I remember correctly. Is not a written work of fiction "public domain" 70 years after the writers is dead?

 

[atgxtg]

Folks, I think that there are a few points about MRQ that sort of spell everything out.


1) MRQ, isn't designed for RQ players, but for new players. DBC has metniuoned that in several posts.

2) MRQ was written by people who appear to have no experience in writing RQ/BRP products, but with extensive experience writing d20 products.

3) What RQers like and what d20 fans like are not necessarily the same things, and at times, can be opposites.

Careful, you are mighty close to bringing down the wrath of DBC on you.

Not from tyhe above 3 things.

#1- DBC has posted on more than one occasion that while they welcome the old RQ vets, MRQ is realled aimed at new players. I can't see how he can dispute his own postings.

#2-I've looked up the MRQ designers and I haven't found one who has written an RQ product. Most of oodles of d20 experience. I don't see how he can dispute that.

#3-I don't see anyone can dispute that either.


Now what conculsions people can infer from these three points could be disputed. I didn't draw any concuslions.

I can't really agree with all your points. I am a RQ player and really only have problems with a couple of things, namely the halving rule, weakened crits, and to a lesser extent the (apparently last minute) removal of reach from Strike Ranks.

I don't expect anyopne to agree with all my points. But can you contest these three?

Also, they could not use BRP verbatim. Chaosium owns the system. Mongoose just owns the RQ name and rights to Glorantha.

Actually, they could use the RQ system, just as long as they didn't use any terms specific to Chaosium. Since Mongoose has permission to use Glorantha, they could have produced a book almost identidcal to RQ2 or RQ3 is they had wanted to. THey didn't and that is a choice thety were free to make.

 

[mthomason]

Hmm, I am no legal expert, but if I remember correctly. Is not a written work of fiction "public domain" 70 years after the writers is dead?

I believe so (in some countries, at least), in addition to anything specifically declared public domain, such as where the author has made the choice not to claim copyright in the first place. I think according to UK law it used to be 50 and anything that expired before the law was changed has therefore already lost it's copyright.

 

[atgxtg]

2) MRQ was written by people who appear to have no experience in writing RQ/BRP products, but with extensive experience writing d20 products.

The problem with #2 is that there are very few people around who have professionally written RQ2/3 material and who don't work for/are friends with, Chaosium.

Hyrum.

Yes, but selecting d20 writers to redesign RQ. Ads from Mongoose, i gave (and still gives) the impression that people like Greg Stafford and Steve Perrin were involved with the design of MRQ, and that MRQ was the "classic"RuneQuest. (Checout out Amazon.com and the offical MRQ page).

Instead it is a group of d20 writers with the RuneQuest name and a new system.