Please use this thread to record your thoughts on the Early War Finn force.
Playtest Comments - Early War Finns
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
So what I'm missing with 76mm field guns? One is 5 pts more expensive but has better piercing and D10+2 vs d6+3. First one has better average result and ability to get 12 vs maximum of 9. Is that really just 5 point difference?
Didn't see anything about what if anything light truck can transport. Might be worth pointing out
Didn't see anything about what if anything light truck can transport. Might be worth pointing out
Mr Evil said:
Don't worry, late war forces will soon have all the aircraft they can handle
Some thoughts (and nit-picks):
1. Some of the guns lack information about moving, and rules for giving the crew cover. Most notably the Bofors AT gun, but also the Madsen automatic and the marianne. I don't know about the others, but the Bofors had a gun shield, and the others could use some rules for moving. (I know they are the same, but when you write them out on each and every gun and then "forget" them on a couple the players are going to wonder...)
2. No Snipers? IIRC the finns did use snipers, or at least sharpshooters of some kind.
3. In the command squad the Lieutenant has an SMG, but his sergeant can get a M31/suomi. (I take it that the lieutenant should have M31 too.)
4. Since the list is for the winter war, some rules for snow could be fun. And then the list should have ski troops -- which really are ordinary troops equipped with skis. Would be a good way to differentiate the finns from russians, to be able to give all finnish units skis.
1. Some of the guns lack information about moving, and rules for giving the crew cover. Most notably the Bofors AT gun, but also the Madsen automatic and the marianne. I don't know about the others, but the Bofors had a gun shield, and the others could use some rules for moving. (I know they are the same, but when you write them out on each and every gun and then "forget" them on a couple the players are going to wonder...)
2. No Snipers? IIRC the finns did use snipers, or at least sharpshooters of some kind.
3. In the command squad the Lieutenant has an SMG, but his sergeant can get a M31/suomi. (I take it that the lieutenant should have M31 too.)
4. Since the list is for the winter war, some rules for snow could be fun. And then the list should have ski troops -- which really are ordinary troops equipped with skis. Would be a good way to differentiate the finns from russians, to be able to give all finnish units skis.
I am a bit ashamed on the amount of which I know about the equipment etc. of Winter War era so hence the lack of comment.
But it is true that here were some snipers or rather sharpshooters who got their training (primarily) by being hunters. By far the most famous sniper of the conflict was Simo Häyhä (with 500+ confirmed kills).
Ski troops, yes essentially all infantry troops could be turned to ski troops would move pretty fast in snow.
But it is true that here were some snipers or rather sharpshooters who got their training (primarily) by being hunters. By far the most famous sniper of the conflict was Simo Häyhä (with 500+ confirmed kills).
Ski troops, yes essentially all infantry troops could be turned to ski troops would move pretty fast in snow.
Yup, I am going mad.
Right, snipers need to go in. Is there anything else that needs to go in the list I have missed out?
And I've finished completely rewriting my departments training material, so I'll be back on the boards more often.
1 - I'll add the gun shield rule to the artillery pieces with them.
2 - They'll go in.
3 - Yes, it would be an M31.
4 - In the final list skis will be an option. The Russians made very very limited use of ski troops (and screwed it up royally). I was going to include them in the weather and terrain chapter.
Light truck is only there to transport the M/31 VKT, as a lot of them were mounted on the flatbed of a small truck and used as mobile AA units. The VKT and light truck seem to have become a bit separated in the text.
The point values of the field guns are something I'm particularly interested in. There are two less in the article than in the final list, and one thing that concerns me is bunching allowing min/maxing. The K/02 should probably be 80, which means looking again at the two other field guns that didn't make it into the article.
On armoured cars - The Finns definitely started the conflict with a Landsverk L182, but I haven't found any sources indicating they started with any BA-10s or 20s. They finished the conflict with a few though.
Right, snipers need to go in. Is there anything else that needs to go in the list I have missed out?
And I've finished completely rewriting my departments training material, so I'll be back on the boards more often.
1 - I'll add the gun shield rule to the artillery pieces with them.
2 - They'll go in.
3 - Yes, it would be an M31.
4 - In the final list skis will be an option. The Russians made very very limited use of ski troops (and screwed it up royally). I was going to include them in the weather and terrain chapter.
Light truck is only there to transport the M/31 VKT, as a lot of them were mounted on the flatbed of a small truck and used as mobile AA units. The VKT and light truck seem to have become a bit separated in the text.
The point values of the field guns are something I'm particularly interested in. There are two less in the article than in the final list, and one thing that concerns me is bunching allowing min/maxing. The K/02 should probably be 80, which means looking again at the two other field guns that didn't make it into the article.
On armoured cars - The Finns definitely started the conflict with a Landsverk L182, but I haven't found any sources indicating they started with any BA-10s or 20s. They finished the conflict with a few though.
I am not 100% sure but I think that there were few LRRP type units even in Winter War (certainly during the Continuation War and during the peace between the wars). I am not sure if they still were special enough to warrant any kind of "special operations" status or would it be enough to use normal troop status...
What would people think about handling this through troop quality?
And the other point about LRRP unit types is the excepting the recent conflict in Iraq when Recon units were deployed as line units (see Generation Kill for an example of this with Marine Recon) half the point of LRRP is that they avoid contact until they have penetrated enemy lines at which time they launch ambushes, sniper attacks, sabotage facilities, direct artillery fire or air strikes etc.
While the long range desert group is the most famous wartime LRRP type force, and is often portrayed on the wargames table, didn't the Finns mostly use their equivalents for mortaring Soviet field kitchens during the winter war?
I'll have a more detailed read of Erp4 unit operations and come back on this. If there is a significant cool factor and people would like them as a separate unit they will go in, to make up for the endless variations on field guns in the list.
I'm in favour of using normal troops with an added trait. I did write a trait system with some rough costings, but my previous hard drive died with it on and I need to get it extracted at some point soon. I may sit down and rewrite the lot though, as I've had a few more ideas since then and I'll be working from the final version of WaW.
And the other point about LRRP unit types is the excepting the recent conflict in Iraq when Recon units were deployed as line units (see Generation Kill for an example of this with Marine Recon) half the point of LRRP is that they avoid contact until they have penetrated enemy lines at which time they launch ambushes, sniper attacks, sabotage facilities, direct artillery fire or air strikes etc.
While the long range desert group is the most famous wartime LRRP type force, and is often portrayed on the wargames table, didn't the Finns mostly use their equivalents for mortaring Soviet field kitchens during the winter war?
I'll have a more detailed read of Erp4 unit operations and come back on this. If there is a significant cool factor and people would like them as a separate unit they will go in, to make up for the endless variations on field guns in the list.
I'm in favour of using normal troops with an added trait. I did write a trait system with some rough costings, but my previous hard drive died with it on and I need to get it extracted at some point soon. I may sit down and rewrite the lot though, as I've had a few more ideas since then and I'll be working from the final version of WaW.
Yes, intelligence gathering was the most important aspect of LRRP units in Winter War and especially in Continuation War (where we had more specially trained units). Still, sabotage, ambushes etc. were part of their job description. But my main "interest" in inclusion of these units would be in specific scenarios where an LRRP unit is caught and they have to fight their way to safety or something like that.
Sending recon type forces at the tip of an assault is plain wrong as it was said in the Generation Kill book and I am not looking for that kind use those units.
Maybe some special traits would serve well for the LRRP units, I agree. Actually this might make it possible to create some Kill Team like scenarios but it's not in the scope of this thread, I suppose.
Sending recon type forces at the tip of an assault is plain wrong as it was said in the Generation Kill book and I am not looking for that kind use those units.
Maybe some special traits would serve well for the LRRP units, I agree. Actually this might make it possible to create some Kill Team like scenarios but it's not in the scope of this thread, I suppose.
