[Playtest Change] Vehicle Values

[MongooseMatt]

Try these new values out - listed as Vehicle: Hull/Armour (front, side, rear)

Air/Raft: 8/0
AFV: 15/(5,4,3)
ATV: 12/1
G/Bike: 2/0
G/Carrier: 20/(6,5,4)
Grav Floater: 1/0
Ground Car: 8/0

Try them against both Personal and Vehicle scale weapons. Think these will be a better fit...

Matthew

 

[Infojunky]

Cool, will play with them.....

 

[Nerhesi]

Try these new values out - listed as Vehicle: Hull/Armour (front, side, rear)

Air/Raft: 8/0
AFV: 15/(5,4,3)
ATV: 12/1
G/Bike: 2/0
G/Carrier: 20/(6,5,4)
Grav Floater: 1/0
Ground Car: 8/0

Try them against both Personal and Vehicle scale weapons. Think these will be a better fit...

Matthew

Results:

0 armour bikes/cars/rafts took a "beating" in terms of damage, but with the lack of armour and a bonus to be hi by personal scale, the average 4d6 weapon would do 25 damage a hit. So a float or a bike was instantly destroyed by a gauss pistol shot from from competant attacker. G/cars took longer due to the "80" personal damage required. I think they need at bit of armour, maybe 1.

ATV did a lot better as 1 armor is more realistic for a "soft skin" vehicle. Perhaps the ATV should go to 2 or 3.

The fighting vehicles performed up to par against bigger weapons, PGMPS and FGMPS penetrated generally with ease (due to adding effect when you drop DD). PGMPs penetrated most of the time, FGMPS could sometime one-shot the vehicles...

Of course, the biggest issue was with vehicle weapons. The 1DD cannon and the 3DD fusion gun annhilated anywhe between 2-6 stacked G-carriers because they are DD weapons in vehicle scale... we obviously need vehicles with 100+ armor in vehicle scale (doesn't make sense not to with advanced materials and based on today's tech of MBTs having their shells bounce off eachother)...

Conclusion:

The change fixes the single issue of making sure that small arms can damage soft skin vehicles. However, it further amplifies problems with vehicle damage, vehicle DD, and streamlining damage on the other side of the scale, between vehicles and spacecraft (weapons and armour)

You know my recommended fix

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Haven't played this, but as an alternative to adding armour to civilian vehicles, could you up the Hull values so they survive longer?

Also, a G-Bike, with it's open frame cannot have armour. So a Gauss Pistol taking it out seems unreasonable, but if it had a bit more hull, it could survive a little longer. BUT, a Gauss Pistol SHOULD be able to take out a G-Bike some of the time; just like a 'critical' hit on a bike today with a pistol could take it out (hit the exposed engine, blow a tire etc.).

 

[Infojunky]

Results:

0 armour bikes/cars/rafts took a "beating" in terms of damage, but with the lack of armour and a bonus to be hi by personal scale, the average 4d6 weapon would do 25 damage a hit.

I get 14+3=17 not 25 unless you are adding in burst fire. Which results in 2 or three points of damage....

So a float or a bike was instantly destroyed by a gauss pistol shot from from competant attacker.

Not sure I see a problem with that.

 

[Nerhesi]

Results:

0 armour bikes/cars/rafts took a "beating" in terms of damage, but with the lack of armour and a bonus to be hi by personal scale, the average 4d6 weapon would do 25 damage a hit.

I get 14+3=17 not 25 unless you are adding in burst fire. Which results in 2 or three points of damage....

You forgot effect. Lets assume an 8 is rolled on 2d6.

14 average damage +3 from skill&characteristic, +1 from aim, +1 from sight, +2 from hitting a vehicle scale target. So not 14 AP3, but 21 AP3.

So yes - a G-bike or g-floater is instantly destroyed. Having taken 21 AP3.

So a float or a bike was instantly destroyed by a gauss pistol shot from from competant attacker.

Not sure I see a problem with that.

You have no problem that grav bike or floater is instantly destroyed (not disabled, but destroyed) by a single pistol shot, meanwhile cloth is better protection? allowing a fleshy human to survive 2 or 3 hits? Origami Grav bike?

 

[Infojunky]

You forgot effect. Lets assume an 8 is rolled on 2d6.

14 average damage +3 from skill&characteristic, +1 from aim, +1 from sight, +2 from hitting a vehicle scale target. So not 14 AP3, but 21 AP3.

So yes - a G-bike or g-floater is instantly destroyed. Having taken 21 AP3.

Ok, just wanted to know how you were counting....

So a float or a bike was instantly destroyed by a gauss pistol shot from from competant attacker.

Not sure I see a problem with that.

You have no problem that grav bike or floater is instantly destroyed (not disabled, but destroyed) by a single pistol shot, meanwhile cloth is better protection? allowing a fleshy human to survive 2 or 3 hits? Origami Grav bike?[/quote]

You Choose a pistol that does damage like a Rifle.... But I think we have different definitions of Destroyed. To me destroyed is no longer able to function. So Yes I don't see the problem with that.

 

[-Daniel-]

You have no problem that grav bike or floater is instantly destroyed (not disabled, but destroyed) by a single pistol shot, meanwhile cloth is better protection? allowing a fleshy human to survive 2 or 3 hits? Origami Grav bike?

I think this depends on how you want to define "destroyed". If you mean in little small useless pieces, then no, one shot does not make sense. If you mean unable to continue flying? Then that feels a lot more realistic.

Side note: if I shoot a G-Bike and it takes a hit that causes it to crash, does it take additional damage for crashing?

 

[Infojunky]

You have no problem that grav bike or floater is instantly destroyed (not disabled, but destroyed) by a single pistol shot, meanwhile cloth is better protection? allowing a fleshy human to survive 2 or 3 hits? Origami Grav bike?

I think this depends on how you want to define "destroyed". If you mean in little small useless pieces, then no, one shot does not make sense. If you mean unable to continue flying? Then that feels a lot more realistic.

Side note: if I shoot a G-Bike and it takes a hit that causes it to crash, does it take additional damage for crashing?

I would start applying Criticals in that case....

 

[Nerhesi]

Just wanting to add a clear issue with Tiers here that really highlights this issue:

G/Carrier - TL 15. It used to be 15 armour on all sides. As of Matt's instruction on this thread, it is 6/5/4 armour and 20 hull (instead of 56).

Even with the higher values previous to this thread Matt (and others), The G/Carrier mounts a TL14 Fusion gun that is doing 30 to 180. Thirty minimum, to One Hundred and Eighty maximum!!!!

On average that instantly slags another G/Carrier. Even with the old values, it could slag 2-lined up G/Carriers. With the new values I think you could line up 4-5 and have one of them slag the rest in a single shot.

More reasoning to avoid multipliers, and rather limit vehicle armour as high values(e.g. 10 per TL so 150 max at TL 15 - oh look at that, it's Bonded Super Dense!).