Planes of Existence and Dimensions

[warlock1971]

Do any of you use the concept of other Planes of Existence or Dimensions in your games? Are these planes accessible to the player characters and NPCs?

If no, where do the gods and spirits of your setting dwell?

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I'm currently using Elric of Melniboné campaign setting, where people do occasionally travel across the Million Spheres from one dimension to another and in fact currently party isn't in their home dimension.

We have also used Glorantha campaign setting, where besides lands of the mortals there is Otherside, where realms of the gods and spirits exist.

 

[warlock1971]

Thanks for that. I haven't played in Glorantha, in fact I have had no real exposure to it at all.

 

[Simulacrum]

Here's mine:

The Earth, Sky and Oceans all belong to the material, or mundane, realm which is itself just one of the three realities that are known to exist (the other two being The spirit World and The Many Hells). The philosopher Atrivaskos of Masia was the first to demonstrate through reasoning alone that these realities must constitute the entirety of existence. While Atrivaskos' Proof is yet to be challenged there is in fact no reason why there could not be some portal between one of the realities and some other dimension in which one or more inhabited worlds are found.

Just beyond mortal perception is the strange and abstract world of the spirits. This dimension touches on the material world at almost every point, and sometimes spirit beings intrude into it or directly influence its inhabitants. The Spirit World is described by some scholars and mystics as like an ocean, one that both divides the material world from the Many Hells and, for those who know how to navigate it, connects them.

Beneath the surface of the earth, in a vast subterranean world that dwarfs the upper world of the living, are the Many Hells. These lands have their own complex geography and their own kingdoms and empires. Those who are native to the Many Hells are commonly called Demons. The souls of the dead that have made it to the Many Hells to take up permanent residence there cannot be returned to the material world again without powerful magic or divine intervention.

The gods do not all live in one place but are scattered about the Three Realities– it is almost a definition of a god that it is a being that exists in more than once reality at once. However many gods are still geographically fixed and while able to move freely along the axis between types of existence, cannot range beyond a particular locale in any one of them.

This is a simple structure that answers fundamental questions about the cosmos at the minimal level of detail required to establish where different types of entity belong or come from. I don't have Elemental Planes or what have you, but I do leave the door open to future extensions or elaboration. I also don't use Chaos as an abstract construct (or Law and Chaos for that matter), nor are Good and Evil capitalised and defined as absolutes, entities or powers. This is deliberate - Million Spheres has cornered Law vs Chaos vs Balance, Glorantha has covered all the creative bases in Chaos as evil (or is it?) mutuating intrusion, the Mythos has the market in evil alien god-like entities that man can barely comprehend, and priggish-good vs evil-for-the-sake-of-it-mwahahaha bores me rigid.

 

[Prime_Evil]

This may sound sad, but the way that I depict other planes and dimensions is heavily influenced by classic Doctor Strange comics from the 1960s...and works such as C.L. Moore's Jirel stories...

 

[Olaus Petrus]

This is a simple structure that answers fundamental questions about the cosmos at the minimal level of detail required to establish where different types of entity belong or come from. I don't have Elemental Planes or what have you, but I do leave the door open to future extensions or elaboration. I also don't use Chaos as an abstract construct (or Law and Chaos for that matter), nor are Good and Evil capitalised and defined as absolutes, entities or powers. This is deliberate - Million Spheres has cornered Law vs Chaos vs Balance, Glorantha has covered all the creative bases in Chaos as evil (or is it?) mutuating intrusion, the Mythos has the market in evil alien god-like entities that man can barely comprehend, and priggish-good vs evil-for-the-sake-of-it-mwahahaha bores me rigid.

None of those concepts are particularly original, so I don't think that Glorantha and Elric have monopoly over those themes. The concept of Chaos and Chaos monsters comes from Ancient Middle East. Idea of Cosmic Balance is quite similar with the idea of balance between Ying and Yang. Your own concept resembles ancient Greco-Roman and other pantheons, where there was plenty of local deities and the gods weren't clearly good or evil. One popular model in fantasy is battle between good and evil and it's clearly modeled after Zoroastrian and Christian views; There's either evil God similar to Angra Mainyu or fallen angel similar to Satan (Tolkien's Morgoth and Sauron are fine examples of this). Actually I think that Lovecraft's concept of evil alien gods which man can't understand is the only original one. I haven't found anything similar in mythology.

But since this about dimensions, I want to remind that besides various heavens, hells, underworlds and shamanistic spirit realms mythology also offers places like Avalon and other Islands of the Blessed which have magical nature and can be treated as places which are normally outside the lands of the mortals. There's also plenty of tales about places like Elphame aka. Elfland which is described in stories as otherworldly realm. In RPG setting these could be treated as other dimensions.

 

[Simulacrum]

None of those concepts are particularly original, so I don't think that Glorantha and Elric have monopoly over those themes. The concept of Chaos and Chaos monsters comes from Ancient Middle East. Idea of Cosmic Balance is quite similar with the idea of balance between Ying and Yang. Your own concept resembles ancient Greco-Roman and other pantheons, where there was plenty of local deities and the gods weren't clearly good or evil. One popular model in fantasy is battle between good and evil and it's clearly modeled after Zoroastrian and Christian views; There's either evil God similar to Angra Mainyu or fallen angel similar to Satan (Tolkien's Morgoth and Sauron are fine examples of this). Actually I think that Lovecraft's concept of evil alien gods which man can't understand is the only original one. I haven't found anything similar in mythology.

I don't dispute that Gloranthan and Million Spheres cosmologies are not 100% original notions created out of nothing (in so far as there is heritage and inspiration behind them). But their implementation is now iconic - at least in D100 land - and I find it difficult, perhaps even pointless, to go into that territory without either consciously or unconsciously just retooling what they have already done. If I want to play a D100 game where warping chaos is the thing I'll reach for my Glorantha stuff.

But since this about dimensions, I want to remind that besides various heavens, hells, underworlds and shamanistic spirit realms mythology also offers places like Avalon and other Islands of the Blessed which have magical nature and can be treated as places which are normally outside the lands of the mortals. There's also plenty of tales about places like Elphame aka. Elfland which is described in stories as otherworldly realm. In RPG setting these could be treated as other dimensions.

Agreed. They do not necessarily need to have a cosmological explanation either, they can just 'exist' in whatever way you want them to. On the other hand if you are operating with a very tightly defined cosmology, you can paint yourself into a corner and find it difficult to fit such stuff in.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I don't dispute that Gloranthan and Million Spheres cosmologies are not 100% original notions created out of nothing (in so far as there is heritage and inspiration behind them). But their implementation is now iconic - at least in D100 land - and I find it difficult, perhaps even pointless, to go into that territory without either consciously or unconsciously just retooling what they have already done. If I want to play a D100 game where warping chaos is the thing I'll reach for my Glorantha stuff.

Glorantha, Young Kingdoms and Cthulhu Mythos settings have over 30 years of history, so naturally those are iconic. My point was that, because almost nothing is completely original, people should feel free to use similar themes and take influences from mythology and fantasy literature. For example Warhammer 40K practically steals everything from other fantasy and sci-fi universes and it seems to be very popular setting to which they constantly publish new RPG books (While I find the setting interesting, I'm not big fan of the system and I prefer BRP rules).

 

[DamonJynx]

If you want more dimensions and stuff, just make up your own however floats your boat. What you have to do though, is make sure that each dimension is internally consistent and has some mechanism to generate conflict

I like the Elric rules so my 'dimensions' will be spheres created using the appropriate tools from that game. Different spheres WILL have slightly different takes, i.e. one might use the Legend core rules only and limit magic to common magic, another sorcery and divine magic and yet another might have common magic, rune magic and divine magic. Some might be worlds that are 80% water, where others are extremely arid. You could also base dimensions on cultures without too much of a problem.

The beauty of the various D100 systems, particularly the close association of Legend and RQ6, is that these components are extremely interchangeable allowing you to create as many different worlds as you like. The only limit is your imagination and how much time you have to invest in creating those worlds.

 

[The Wolf]

This may sound sad, but the way that I depict other planes and dimensions is heavily influenced by classic Doctor Strange comics from the 1960s...and works such as C.L. Moore's Jirel stories...

Neat. I like that, I do something similar with mine.

 

[alex_greene]

I recommend you throw away Manual of the Planes altogether, and likewise anything from Moorcock, and think of your own ideas, or borrow from history or other inspirations.

Think "Twilight Zone." Think "Tir Na Nog." Think "Mirror, Mirror." If you have an enemy to fight, such as marauders or zombie soldiers or whatever, have the player characters discover a full-length mirror which plunges them into another dimension where the enemy has won, and the streets are overrun with them with the last remaining humans putting up a spirited last stand.

In that alternate universe, perhaps people whom the characters once lost could be alive - though they may never have heard of the player characters and be distrustful of them, or even downright malign towards them if they come from a "mirror" universe where everybody's personalities are the inverse of their own.

Alternate dimensions are the perfect "there but for the grace of God" lesson - if the characters fail to be diligent in the pursuit of their quests, however hopeless they seem, this scenario of abject failure awaits them.

If you have access to alternate dimensions in your games, you will need to invent sorcery spells and items permitting transportation to those planes: magic rings, mirrors, doorways or strange cabinets of wood panels, painted blue, which are actually bigger on the inside ...

As for planes of otherworldly entities, afterlife planes, a Spirit Plane, the Astral Plane ... Perhaps you only need one such Plane, taking on many different forms - Heavens for some, Hells for others, an animistic Happy Hunting Ground for yet others - and all the spirit-based magics of Common Magic, Divine Magic, Sorcery and Spirit Magic all access the same intangible place. The "demons" of summoners are the same as the "spirits" of shamans, given the vestments of flesh formed from their summoners' respective fears, desires and expectations.

 

[The Wolf]

+1, I seriously cannot stress what alex said here enough.