Pastiches rule!!! Conan GM's read this thread!

[Iron_Chef]

Pastiches rule!!! Seriously. They do. 8) No matter what your stance on the literary merits of Conan pastiches, or whether parts of them conflict with Howard's writing, these books always manage to fill in some details to the Hyborian Age that Howard never bothered with... probably because he never had to fill up 280 pages with just one Conan tale. :wink: And let me tell you, these details are INSPIRATIONAL GOLD FOR CONAN GM's!
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EXAMPLES OF WHY PASTICHES WORK SO WELL AS IDEA MINES FOR YOUR CONAN GAME:

CONAN AND THE TREASURE OF PYTHON by John Maddox Roberts: Provides a vivid description of Asgalun (Shem) and its waterfront, then moves on to cover the foreign quarter of Khemi (Stygia), then to the Black Coast to detail a "typical" trade voyage, complete with a pirate attack and trading with the natives. The jungles are also detailed, and the mountains and desert beyond. You get an Aquilonian noble family, a Vanir half-pirate (with nice details on his boat and crew), a tribe of Kushites, a mongrel axeman guide, man-apes...

CONAN AND THE AMAZON by John Maddox Roberts:
Provides nice detail on an outlaw bandit town in Brythunia named Leng, white amazon customs, Zamorian border crossings, a Zamorian village and ruined (haunted) temple, the town of Zardas (at the border crossing between Koth and Khauran), details on desert tribes (particularly on taking over an oasis and charging people to use it), hazards of the desert, a complete ruined city preserved by magic filled with inbred degenerates.

CONAN THE ROGUE by John Maddox Roberts:
Nice detail on shopping in Belverus, travel between Nemedia, Ophir and Aquilonia, a complete, beautifully detailed Aquilonian mining town (with city map) that is filled with warring gangs and corrupt officials. So many excellent NPC villains and rogues to lift!!!

CONAN THE MARAUDER by John Maddox Roberts:
Details on Hyrkanian tribes, how to unite the tribes, shamans, tribal burial grounds, Turanian allied city-states along the Hyrkanian border (one in great detail).

CONAN THE CHAMPION by John Maddox Roberts:
Details on the northern reaches of Brythunia with three warring barbarian tribes covered and white "druidical" magic.

CONAN AND THE EMERALD LOTUS by John C. Hocking
Akkharia, a city-state in Shem is detailed, as is the great difficulty in trying to cross the Shem/Stygian border, hazards of desert travel, an ancient temple/fortress and a new type of demonic, sentient and ambulatory blood-drinking lotus whose powdered leaves boost magical power!

CONAN THE UNCONQUERED by Robert Jordan:
Aghrapur, Turan is covered, as is a voyage across the Vilayet to Hyrkania, the dangers of dealing with Hyrkanians and pirates, a Hyrkanian shamaness, horrors of the living dead, an evil cult...

CONAN: THE ROAD OF KINGS by Karl Edward Wagner:
Kordava, Zingara (including a city map!) covered in exquisite detail, as well as a civil war and regime change, step by step, with street fighting, sedition, executions and profiteers.

CONAN THE GUARDIAN by Roland Green:
This book kinda sucked, but it does detail Messantia, Argos, quite well, including two noble houses (one poor, one well off).

CONAN THE TRIUMPHANT by Robert Jordan:
Ianthe, Ophir is detailed, with many cool NPCs, a new demon god/cult and its rituals, running a Free Company (mercenaries). I read this one in four hours it was sooo fun!

CONAN AND THE SORCERER by Andrew Offut:
Arenjun, Zamora's distinction between rich and poor is highlighted, anevil wizard's mansion revealed in depth, hazards of desert travel, Khawarasmi slaver practices, cool NPCs (including an Iranistani), an evil spirit made out of sand, more.

CONAN AND THE MERCENARY by Andrew Offut:
This book was weak, but short. It has a great adventure hook where the PCs would stumble across a noblewoman being attacked in Shadizar, save her, join her as a bodyguard and return with her to Khauran, where she must help her sister the Queen escape a plot to turn Khauran over to Koth!

CONAN: THE SWORD OF SKELOS by Andrew Offut:Shadizar and Zamboula and the desert in between (including lots of detail on the Shanki tribal culture of the desert). Cool NPCs (including another awesome Iranistani)!

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like Conan the Rogue should have been called Conan & the Red Harvest.

I certainly hope that the author at least credited Dashiell Hammett for his plot.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Sounds like Conan the Rogue should have been called Conan & the Red Harvest.

I certainly hope that the author at least credited Dashiell Hammett for his plot.

Nope. It is also a complete rip-off of THE MALTESE FALCON, because why rip off Dashiell Hammett once when you can rip him off twice in the same book? Conan is hired by a Joel Cairo stand-in to steal the Black Scorpion, but is also hired for the same task by a Casper Guttman look-alike, and must deal with the two-faced hot chick also after the scorpion statue. Despite the fact that the author shamelessly rips off Hammett, Conan The Rogue is one of the most fun and truly inspirational pastiches I've ever read. If you need more proof than that, some guy I've never heard of on the front of the book clearly states: "John Maddox Roberts is a master of high adventure!" :wink:

Also, keep in mind that I'm talking about the pastiches as excellent sources of information and adventure seeds for running a Conan game, not necessarily as great literature or worthy successors to Howard. I'm no Howard purist, however. The only way to get new Conan stories is for others to write them, and that's the only way for the Conan property to grow and stay financially healthy. I really enjoyed the vast majority of the pastiches I've read, enough to reread them several times over the years. Jordan, Roberts, Wagner, Offutt and Wagner al have delivered some fun, memorable books. Yes, there are stinkers, and even a normally great author can deliver a lousy book, or derail one that had started with promise. The bad more often than not pastiche authors are Leonard Carpenter, Poul Anderson, Steve Perry, Roland Green and IMO, L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. Haven't read any Sean Moore yet, but hear he's pretty good.

At any rate, this thread isn't about debating the merits of the pastiches as anything but idea mines for running Conan RPG games; I don't want it to degenerate into that, despite my provocative title, "Pastiches rule!!!"

 

[VincentDarlage]

CONAN THE GUARDIAN by Roland Green:
This book kinda sucked, but it does detail Messantia, Argos, quite well, including two noble houses (one poor, one well off).

I would ignore the detail on Messantia, though. Mr. Green didn't do his research. Howard definitely described Messantia as not having walls, yet Mr. Green spent quite a lot of effort in describing the massive walls of Messantia.

 

[Iron_Chef]

CONAN THE GUARDIAN by Roland Green:
This book kinda sucked, but it does detail Messantia, Argos, quite well, including two noble houses (one poor, one well off).

I would ignore the detail on Messantia, though. Mr. Green didn't do his research. Howard definitely described Messantia as not having walls, yet Mr. Green spent quite a lot of effort in describing the massive walls of Messantia.

I forgot about that. However, the book isn't completely worthless. The plot between the noble houses is possibly worth lifting. Still, the book was definitely weak. I had a hard time reading it; I remember reading several pages over and over and not comprehending what Mr. Green was talking about... such was his inability to hold my attention span. Oh, there was another fun bit in it, with Conan and his freelances sent to work at a logging camp and being treated like slaves even though they were freemen (saving up their paychecks to pay the taxes to enter the city). That bit could make a great mini-adventure for cash-strapped PCs, hehe! I'll have to turn that into an adventure seed for my GM's Guide thread. There could be fist fights at the camp, and maybe people start turning up murdered, with the PCs taking the blame, but some wizard's supernatural pet being the real culprit. :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

At any rate, this thread isn't about debating the merits of the pastiches as anything but idea mines for running Conan RPG games; I don't want it to degenerate into that, despite my provocative title, "Pastiches rule!!!"

Given you did used a provocative title, allow us "Howard's purists" to retort. Fair is fair, right?

Pastiches suck!!!

 

[Mortepierre]

Lads, let's not quarrel over this.

It is true that some authors of the so-called pastiches didn't do their homework and depicted the setting in ways Howard would (probably) not have approved.

It is equally true that this is about getting as much fun as possible out of a setting (and game) we all love.

If some GMs find the pastiches to be a good source of inspiration, more power to them. If others prefer to base their stories only on Howard's original work, kudos to them. To each his own.

In the end, I bet we can all agree on the fact we're just glad Mongoose published the setting 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Of course we Conan GM's cannot dare judge pastiche authors, since we ourselves are merely pastiche authors writ small when we run a Conan RPG campaign.

 

[Ian Sturrock]

Of course we Conan GM's cannot dare judge pastiche authors, since we ourselves are merely pastiche authors writ small when we run a Conan RPG campaign.

True to a certain extent. As people have mentioned, though, not all the 'official' pastiche material is consistent with Howard. Personally I'll likely incorporate pastiche material into my own games, but only so far as it doesn't contradict either the letter or spirit of Howard's work; I'll aim for the rest of the elements of the campaign to do the same. That was the aim when I was writing the initial game, too; on the few occasions I used pastiche material, it was to fill in gaps left by Howard in a plausible way, rather than to radically alter what he'd written as some of the lesser pastiches do.

I trust Vincent Darlage to do a great job on Road of Kings, though; he knows the source material inside out, so I'm sure he'll get the balance spot on when it comes to deciding which of the pastiche material to include and which to leave out.

Of course, as you said, we're all doing pastiches by the very act of setting our games in the Hyborian Age. Each GM can decide for him or herself just how faithful to the source material the campaign is going to be; the rules set is flexible enough you could use it for almost any sword and sorcery campaign, however divergent from Howard.

 

[GrayPumpkin]

True to a certain extent. As people have mentioned, though, not all the 'official' pastiche material is consistent with Howard. Personally I'll likely incorporate pastiche material into my own games, but only so far as it doesn't contradict either the letter or spirit of Howard's work; I'll aim for the rest of the elements of the campaign to do the same. That was the aim when I was writing the initial game, too; on the few occasions I used pastiche material, it was to fill in gaps left by Howard in a plausible way, rather than to radically alter what he'd written as some of the lesser pastiches do.

This sums up much of feelings on the matter as well. I'm mostly concerned with keeping the spirit of Howard in my games, though I agree that one can find something usefull/ uasable in most pastiches, even if it's just some neat artwork like in Anderson's "Conan the Rebel", though sometimes it not worth suffering though the story for. Luckily for me my players aren’t that familiar with Howard’s work (the philistines), but it does mean that I can steal whole hog from the master himself for my games.

I trust Vincent Darlage to do a great job on Road of Kings, though; he knows the source material inside out, so I'm sure he'll get the balance spot on when it comes to deciding which of the pastiche material to include and which to leave out.

I agree 100% percent. I wasn’t all that keen on “Road of Kings” until it finally dawned on me that Vincent Darlage was doing it (Don't know how I missed that detail for so long). I'm fan of Vincent Darlage’s Conan page, the best d20 Conan site out there IMHO. And I’ve just recently discovered his homebrew dnd world of Inzeldun, which has just blown me away with its coolness.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't rile up the purists, please!!!!!