Opposed checks and difficulties

[denis]

Jamming a Comms System: Opposed Electronics (comms) check (1D minutes, INT). Difficult
(10+) for radio, Very Difficult (12+) for laser, and Formidable (14+) for masers.

Opposed check for average tasks I understand, but sometimes a situation makes it harder for one of the opposing characters, as in the example for the jamming of a comms system. It lists difficulties for radio, laser, etc. My question here is: shouldn't the laser be a formidable difficulty for the one trying to jam, and an average (or easier?) difficulty for the one resisting the jamming?

Same with Stealth opposed by Recon: some situation might make it harder to hide (increasing the difficulty of the Stealth check and/or decreasing the difficulty of the Recon check.

Or am I wrong and the opposed check is always done on the same difficulty?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

May I suggest that it makes sense if

EFFECT
... If the Traveller’s total throw after applying all Dice Modifiers equals or exceeds the target difficulty (eight or more for an Average check), he succeeds. If it is less, he fails.

AND

OPPOSED CHECKS
... Both Travellers or characters make their task checks as normal, with the winner being the character with the highest Effect.

must both be successful?

 

[denis]

Yes that's what I got from the paragraph on opposed checks. When I read it the first time I thought it through with an average difficulty, 8+ as you quoted, and it made sense to me. But my question here is for cases where it's not an average check, as mentioned in the Electronics (Comm) example. See the quote.

I can see a situation where both opposing characters are equally affected by the condition (wrestling on ice, for instance) where the opposed check is the same difficulty for both. That's basically the same as an opposed check on 8+, but using 10+ instead (for instance).

My question arise from the example. Trying to jam or tap into a communication when the communication is over laser is harder (very difficult as the example states), but that's for the one trying to jam/tap. The opposing character shouldn't have to check against very difficult: he actually has an easier task.

So the question is: do both roll against different difficulties in cases like that?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

May I suggest that it makes sense if

EFFECT
... If the Traveller’s total throw after applying all Dice Modifiers equals or exceeds the target difficulty (eight or more for an Average check), he succeeds. If it is less, he fails.

AND

OPPOSED CHECKS
... Both Travellers or characters make their task checks as normal, with the winner being the character with the highest Effect.

must both be successful?

Effects can be negative numbers also. I've been using different difficulty target numbers for each Traveller.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

My suggestion was that the active or offensive party must both have an Effect >= 0 and higher Effect than the opponent.
Both roll against the same difficulty. Since it is much harder to succeed at regular Formidable task, than a regular Difficult task, it is much harder to succeed at an opposed Formidable task, than an opposed Difficult task, which seems reasonable.

 

[denis]

Oh, I see what you mean. So for instance for a difficult task (10+), you would have both roll against 10+ but the "attacker" would have to also succeed, just not have higher effect. Say they both roll 8, each has an effect of -2 but since the attacker fails it doesn't work.

I'm not sure I like that. In a case like that if the attacker rolls 10 and the defender rolls 9, then the action succeeds, even though the defender had a good roll for a task which is (by the example we're talking about) much easier than the attacker. If you give them different difficulties, say average for the defender and difficult for the attacker, then the defender would have an effect of +1 while the attacker would have an effect of 0, and then it wouldn't work. On the other hand, if the attacker rolled 8 (effect -2) and the defender rolled 5 (effect -3) the attack would succeed since the attacker has a greater effect.

I'll think this over a bit more. Thanks for your input!

 

[MongooseMatt]

Some of you may be overthinking this

In opposed checks, you just need to get a higher Effect than your opponent (even if you are both negative). That is all. Varying difficulties can make this harder for one party or the other but at the end of the day, Effect is all that matters.

 

[denis]

Some of you may be overthinking this

In opposed checks, you just need to get a higher Effect than your opponent (even if you are both negative). That is all. Varying difficulties can make this harder for one party or the other but at the end of the day, Effect is all that matters.

Thanks for the info!

An example of this would go a long way. The paragraph on opposed checks is rather small

 

[AnotherDilbert]

But then an opposed Average task is mathematically identical to opposed Formidable task?

I mean both roll 2D - 100, compare results. The -100 becomes irrelevant.


Or should the defender always roll an Average roll? (not even hinted at in the rules?)

 

[MongooseMatt]

But then an opposed Average task is mathematically identical to opposed Formidable task?

Sauce for the goose - the odds, as the man said, are even.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

But then an opposed Average task is mathematically identical to opposed Formidable task?

I mean both roll 2D - 100, compare results. The -100 becomes irrelevant.


Or should the defender always roll an Average roll? (not even hinted at in the rules?)

The Effect from a Traveller's roll is all the Referee is after. Mongoose Traveller has always been that way.