I am looking at making some old ships for my party to check out when they go to the shipyard. There are some pretty crappy negatives that can come up when you make an old ship. Are these negatives fixable? Can you fix the structural negatives or replace the sensors to fix the -DM? If you can, how are you handling the repairs?
Old Ships
- Thread starter Xoph
- Start date
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Everything should be fixable. But it will COST.
A leaky reactor will probably require a new PP, but maybe you could just replace the containment vessel for 60% of the cost of a new PP.
Crappy sensors can be replaced, but it costs money. Until they are fixed the players have to live with the DMs.
These quirks are going to be big things for the GM to work out. Don't forget that not all of the quirks (good or bad) will be known to the characters when they buy the ship...
A leaky reactor will probably require a new PP, but maybe you could just replace the containment vessel for 60% of the cost of a new PP.
Crappy sensors can be replaced, but it costs money. Until they are fixed the players have to live with the DMs.
These quirks are going to be big things for the GM to work out. Don't forget that not all of the quirks (good or bad) will be known to the characters when they buy the ship...
It will be just like an old car. Yes you can fix it, until the next thing breaks. So even if you replace the powerplant, it is still pushing the old drives, and powering the old sensors.
Do you really believe the used car slaeman that tells you it is just like new? Well, he is the same guy that wioll be selling the used ships in the future. Not sure if the 3I has a lemon law.
Do you really believe the used car slaeman that tells you it is just like new? Well, he is the same guy that wioll be selling the used ships in the future. Not sure if the 3I has a lemon law.
zozotroll said:
No, I really think its more like the old saw I have my grandfather's axe. My father replaced the haft and I replaced the blade ... :wink:
I think Starships should be thought of more as ships than cars. As long as the hull is structurally sound, retrofitting a new engine and new sensors is fine.
The problem is, of course, that there is no reason to do that because the extant ship construction rules assume all new construction all the time.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense ... like rocks at C, Pirates, Tech Levels, Lasers vs. Slugthrowers and any number of other things in Traveller.
Phil
aspqrz said:
that was not entirely true under CT's Bk2 damage model, Phil. Per CT-TTB, page 78, repair cost is 2d6x10% of new cost for the system, no matter the amount of damage scored. (There is a DM-2 for a shipyard...) So, occasionally, when not in a yard, it's cheaper to replace. Now, JDrives, once you add shipping, usually cheaper to repair.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
I would also have a few "cosmetic" or non-rule things to toss at them if they buy a used ship.
For example, every time they go into or come out of jump the refreshers gurgle. Not overflow or anything. Just an odd sound and it never seems to be fixable.
Another Example: Some of the walls are down to bare metal, others have seven or eight layers of paint, all showing. (Cost to paint the whole ship is not a lot, but the time..... :wink: )
This helps enforce it is an old ship, not a new one with just a single issue rolled off a table.
Just my .02
Daniel
For example, every time they go into or come out of jump the refreshers gurgle. Not overflow or anything. Just an odd sound and it never seems to be fixable.
Another Example: Some of the walls are down to bare metal, others have seven or eight layers of paint, all showing. (Cost to paint the whole ship is not a lot, but the time..... :wink: )
This helps enforce it is an old ship, not a new one with just a single issue rolled off a table.
Just my .02
Daniel
Thanks all, that makes sense.
I'm totally doing the cosmetic stuff and I've already mentioned the old superstition of changing a ships name to my players. Nothing says used Yacht like living with Roman theme decorations or a used Fat Trader like everything done up Chinese including bright red and gold paint, feng shui interior, and a name like the Special Ox.
I agree with aspqrz that old ships last, but I don't think the ship construction rules would lead to so much new construction, especial since we haven't seen the retrofitting rules. (I'm talking to you guys at mongoose) I hope they make having old ships economical and fun.
Yes Rikki my players will have to use there skills while kicking the tires to find out all the fun quirks with each ship they look at... hopefully they'll sort the lemons from the golden eggs... before they buy.
I'm totally doing the cosmetic stuff and I've already mentioned the old superstition of changing a ships name to my players. Nothing says used Yacht like living with Roman theme decorations or a used Fat Trader like everything done up Chinese including bright red and gold paint, feng shui interior, and a name like the Special Ox.
I agree with aspqrz that old ships last, but I don't think the ship construction rules would lead to so much new construction, especial since we haven't seen the retrofitting rules. (I'm talking to you guys at mongoose) I hope they make having old ships economical and fun.
Yes Rikki my players will have to use there skills while kicking the tires to find out all the fun quirks with each ship they look at... hopefully they'll sort the lemons from the golden eggs... before they buy.
dafrca said:
I've had my eyes opened by watching various house refurbishing shows on TV. Amazing what kind of ordinance-violating shortcuts such shows proudly take to cover up old damage.
I imagine old ships can easily have hidden jury-rigged fixes just waiting to fail..below-spec plasma conduits in the powerplant or jump drive, metal wiring instead of optical, magnetizable plating where non-magnetic should be used, a pair of old socks used as filters in life support, lead-based plumbing in the food service areas instead of hypoallergenic polymer tubing, bypasses linking sewage outflows to potable water sources without backflow valves (eewwww), vacuum barriers in bulkheads simply missing, etc.
Yep, an old ship can be a barrel of laughs. :shock:
SSWarlock said:
Of course, there's also the chance that what you've bought was, say, the flagship of the <Fill in the Blank> Line, replaced with a new J-3 jobbie ... but lavishly maintained at J-2 until replacement.
Or that it was "one little old lady who never took it out of the subsector" owner :wink:
Old ships are not ALWAYS bad ships.
Phil
aspqrz said:SSWarlock said:
Of course, there's also the chance that what you've bought was, say, the flagship of the <Fill in the Blank> Line, replaced with a new J-3 jobbie ... but lavishly maintained at J-2 until replacement.
Or that it was "one little old lady who never took it out of the subsector" owner :wink:
Old ships are not ALWAYS bad ships.
Phil
And then there are the "iffy" ships.
The one that has had 10 owners, all of whom sold it because, while in perfect working order, it hums during jump... at 892hz and 40dB. And makes all your music sound off. (That is, BTW, just a hair above the a above middle C, and
Or the ship which has been repo'd 4 times by voluntary turn-back... having simply gone bankrupt each time, stuck with unsaleable cargo and no passengers nor freight...
Or the ship with a personality simulator hard wired into the computer. Sure she's incredibly well maintained. She nags if she isn't!
When doing Starship creation there is no system to take into account hallways and airlocks et cetera. When you design a ship how do you handle this? do you take the extra dTons out of the cargo room? Ignore it and wish the rules would have just been been based on the dTon of the jump field with standard templates for each field shape and you could just fill the space as you could afford it?
