Nova Starfuries

[Locutus9956]

Just a minor suggestion but it seems to me that the humble Nova Starfury from all I've read of it fluffwise could do with perhaps having dogfight +2. As it stands, aside from ISD limitations, why on earth would you ever, EVER not swap them out for Auroras? (its free to do so).

Auroras over the Nova has:

4" higher movement
1 point higher hull
twin linked guns
1 point higher dogfight
Is identical in every other way.

Now granted in independant wings you get 1 more Nova fury but, frankly given how many early EA ships carry fighters anyway I dont know many EA players who buy independant wings anyway (except to replenish campaign losses).

Quite aside from the gameplay though its more a case that all the fluff makes out the Nova fury (at the time) to be basically one of the premier dogfighters in the galaxy and +1 just doesnt really say that to me.

I'm not complaining really, it just doesnt quite ring true to me so I thought I'd see how everyone else feels

 

[skavendan]

Well I just swap them for T Bolts generally. Good anti ship fighter. And I am Psi Corp so I have +3/+4 from those ships so it works well like that.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

You can't swap Novas for Thunderbolts. Novas are in the Early Years list, Thunderbolts in the Third age/Crusade lists.

 

[skavendan]

You can't swap Novas for Thunderbolts. Novas are in the Early Years list, Thunderbolts in the Third age/Crusade lists.

Ah I only take small ships from the Early years my mistake. He can still swap them for Aura's so that gets him the +2 he was after. unless he is playing a campaign by date.

 

[Locutus9956]

Thats the thing though, like I said its not really a gamplay issue, I CAN just swap them for Auroras normally but I dont really want to (I'm trying to play a proper 'Dilgar War' EA fleet (Damn you LC! DAMN YOUUUUUUUU!!!! ) but the Nova just doesnt feel like the 'kickass dogfighting machine' Personally I'd like to see it equal the Aurora in dogfight (since overall its pretty much the same fighter in terms of maneuverability, the Aurora's just faster and has twin linked cannons).

As it stands I still use them anyway most of the time but its just that I think it would be nice if the fluff matched the stats a bit more

 

[skavendan]

There rubbish speed 10 Vs 14, Hull 4 Vs 5, weapons 2AD Vs 2AD twin linked, DF +1 Vs +2.....

Anything with a Hull of 4 is fairly rubbish.

 

[locarno24]

Anything with a Hull of 4 is fairly rubbish.

Hardly for a superiority fighter. Unless you're going to mark the Nial heavy fighter, Sentri or Thorun down as rubbish...

Novas are supposed to be defensive fighter screens; they have no place tryng to close and strafe enemy capital ships - that's what the Tiger-class with those stand-off missile racks is for.

In that situation, the hull score and lack of oomph of its pulse cannons doesn't really matter. The lack of dogfight, however, does.

Personally, I agree with Locutus9956 - the problem isn't with the Nova. It's that it has a 'free replacement' policy with the Aurora-class, which is its superior in every way but not quite superior enough to cost more.
Which personally I think is a bit wierd....

Difference between Delta 109 and Delta V2:
+4 speed, +1 hull, +1 dogfight, 'effective' +1 to hit via non-weak weapons.

Cost difference: Almost double.


Difference between Starfury Nova and Starfury Aurora:
+4 speed, +1 hull, +1 dogfight, 'effective' +1 to hit via twin-linked weapons.

Cost difference: Almost none.


Something feels a bit out of whack...there's nothing inherantly wrong with the Nova's statline; it's identical to the Gorith, which is what you'd expect for a race's first-generation interceptor. Unless the Dilgar War supplement is going to re-introduce the Starfury Ares or Starfury Fox 8) )... It wasn't invincible or even close to that; it was a match for the best fighters in the league fleets (which means the competition was the Folshot, the Falkosi's predecessor, and the Kotha) - you didn't have to be that good to look very impressive.

The problem is quite simply that you have the ability to replace them, for free, with an unarguably superior craft. You can't make the Nova cheaper per wing as it becomes too cheap compared to the Gorith and too well armed compared to the Star Snake or Falkosi.
You can't make it better as then it is substantially better than the Gorith and Delta V2 for the same cost - not to mention that it (logically) has to remain worse than the Starfury Aurora.

 

[skavendan]

Dont buy fighers when you can get them on a carrier. Fleet carriers only way to go really.

 

[Da Boss]

(I'm trying to play a proper 'Dilgar War' EA fleet (Damn you LC! DAMN YOUUUUUUUU!!!! ) but the Nova just doesnt feel like the 'kickass dogfighting machine' Personally I'd like to see it equal the Aurora in dogfight (since overall its pretty much the same fighter in terms of maneuverability, the Aurora's just faster and has twin linked cannons).As it stands I still use them anyway most of the time but its just that I think it would be nice if the fluff matched the stats a bit more

I know exactly what you mean I was not really interested in that era of B5 until I read the novel............. 8)

 

[Taran]

Difference between Starfury Nova and Starfury Aurora:
+4 speed, +1 hull, +1 dogfight, 'effective' +1 to hit via twin-linked weapons.

Cost difference: Almost none.

Cost increase of 20%, Aurora (4 in a wing) over Nova (5). But, again, that only applies to independent wings.

 

[Triggy]

As far as I know the Early Years EA list was balanced for use without swapping out the Novas and swapping them for Auroras is a pure benefit. I'm sure this wasn't meant to be as I never even noticed that statement in the Early EA list until about a month ago. It's something I'd like removed for P&P

The Nova doesn't need a boost, the EA list just needs the option for swapping them for Auroras removing.

 

[Target]

They could be made faster than the aurora since they have less armour & firepower. Maybe the extra speed was detrimental to dogfighting. There does need to be areson to take them over the aurora.

 

[skavendan]

They could be made faster than the aurora since they have less armour & firepower. Maybe the extra speed was detrimental to dogfighting. There does need to be areson to take them over the aurora.

That's the best point I heard yet and it adds up.

Less armoured lighter fighters faster also gives you a good chance to jump a fighter on it's own and add some + to the dogfight.

 

[greenboy]

I think that it is fine as it is the problem is the free swapout they should have to pay like everyone else

 

[Burger]

I think that it is fine as it is the problem is the free swapout they should have to pay like everyone else

I'd hardly say like "everyone" else: I believe Rutarians, and Firebolts are the only upgraded fighters that you have to pay for?

 

[skavendan]

I think that it is fine as it is the problem is the free swapout they should have to pay like everyone else

Your obvously going to take the better ship for free...

 

[Locutus9956]

As has been noted the problem as I see it is basically that the nova fury, historically is supposed to be a better dogfighter than the thorun and indeed a better dogfighter than most other races fighters and its just NOT. I would actually be quite happy to see the Aurora swap option left in but the numbers on the novas toned down to match, most people would still take Auroras but it wouldnt handicap those of us playing themed fleets as much

 

[Triggy]

As has been noted the problem as I see it is basically that the nova fury, historically is supposed to be a better dogfighter than the thorun and indeed a better dogfighter than most other races fighters and its just NOT. I would actually be quite happy to see the Aurora swap option left in but the numbers on the novas toned down to match, most people would still take Auroras but it wouldnt handicap those of us playing themed fleets as much

Given that they were balanced in the fleet lists when not doing swaps, I'd say you're fine doing themed lists. It's the players who do Aurora swaps that are gaining an unexpected advantage.

 

[Tyrian2005]

What I would do regarding the original post of this thread:

1.) Replace all the novas in the hangars with auroras.
2.) If I really wanted bombers...would take a few tigers.

 

[locarno24]

I'd hardly say like "everyone" else: I believe Rutarians, and Firebolts are the only upgraded fighters that you have to pay for?

And Delta-V2's, which give almost exactly the same improvement that Early Years EA gets for free.

As has been noted the problem as I see it is basically that the nova fury, historically is supposed to be a better dogfighter than the thorun and indeed a better dogfighter than most other races fighters and its just NOT.

I don't recall where it specifically says it was better than the Thorun. It could definitely stand up to the Thorun - which the Nova can, having the same dogfight stat, but that's not the same as being better.

And once again, at the in-service time, the fighters that the Nova would have been measured against were the Dilgar war era - Folshots, Frazis and Kothas are fighters that its easy to be better than. Yes it's not as good a fighter as a Sentri, but it was never going to be; it's too crude a design.