Niven Ring

Tom Kalbfus

Mongoose
The dimensions of this Niven Ring, otherwise known as a Ringworld is 187,800,000 km in radius, and 1,600,000 km wide, this is a bit bigger than the one in Larry Niven's novels. I think using subsector maps would work well for mapping a part of the Niven Ring, Unlike the usual convention about 25 subsectors make a sector instead of 16 and the sectors will be labled
ABCDE
FGHIJ
KLMNO
PQRST
UVWXY
The Niven Ring will therefore be 2 sectors wide and 10 subsectors wide with each hex being 16,000 km wide, about the size of Size A planet.
 
Took me second there, you want to map out a Ring World.... Cool go for it.

If I where going to take on such a project I probably would go the HALO route....
 
GypsyComet said:
... and 1,475 sectors around?
I see you did the calculation. My wife was eager to use my computer, so I've had some time to sleep on it since. Since this ringworld is a bit bigger than Niven's, why not make it a little wider as well? I could use standard 16 subsector sectors and make the ringworld 3 sectors wide. Each hex is 16,000 km from straight edge to straight edge, and 20,000 km from corner to corner if you draw a straight line through the center. A subsector is therefore 160,000 km from top to bottom, since it is 10 hexes from top to bottom, and 160,000 wide? Not quite, hexes aren't laid corner to corner, I think its more like 10 by 8. A subsector is 160,000 km wide north to south, a sector is four across, which would make it 640,000 km wide north to south, get three of them to make the width of the ringworld and you have a ringworld that is 1,920,000 km wide. Since I said this ringworld would be 187,800,000 km in radius, this sounds about right. A ringworld should be about 100:1 in proportion of its radius to its width.

How do the PCs find themselves in this ringworld? Well basically they "wake up" into it, they take the "red pill" instead of the "blue pill" so to speak. The world around them that they thought was real, with its star sectors, its jump drives and all of that turned out to be a computer simulation. This would also "explain" why Traveller maps are 2-D instead of 3-D, as that makes it much easier for a computer under the floor of the ringworld to represent. The PCs wake up much the same way that the character NEO wakes up in the Movie the Matrix.
 
Infojunky said:
Took me second there, you want to map out a Ring World.... Cool go for it.

If I where going to take on such a project I probably would go the HALO route....
What is the Halo route?
Halos are much smaller than Niven rings, although they are ring shaped.

To make it simple, I'm creating a traditional space subsector, which is part of the Imperium, this Imperium is very similar to the Third Imperium, it has a history that is thousands of years long, it has spaceships that use jump drives and is populated by multiple species, but the thing is, it all is fictional, existing only in cyberspace, although its inhabitants don't know that, as far as they know they are exploring, and colonizing the galaxy using the miraculous Jump Drives to quickly get them to their destination. Little do they know, that the planets they explore, the aliens they meet are all within a simulation run by a computer underneath the floor of the ringworld. A ringworld has the surface area of over 3 million Earths, so its easily possible for a computer the size of a ringworld to simulate planets, stars and creatures. There is a portal, located on the simulated planet of Aurora, where real bodies for simulated creatures are fabricated through nanotech devices. That means player and non-player characters can bring themselves and their equipment onto the floor of the ringworld. The ringworld actually exists about 30,000 years in the future, in the Alpha Centari System. Since Alpha Centauri A is a bit brighter than out Sun, the ringworld built around it is a bit larger. The ringworld rotates once every ten days producing 1 g of centrifugal force on its surface. Alpha Centauri B is not visible in the Ringworld sky.

Grav vehicles that are brought through the portal become Mag vehicles, that is vehicles propelled by magnetic forces rather than control of artificial gravity, which was a fiction created by the computer simulations, as were the Jump Drives, everything else works however, as it is based on real physics. Grav vehicles, air/rafts, speeders, grav belts and the like get converted to use magnetic forces repelling against the floor of the ringworld with magnetic forces in much the same manner as a maglev train.
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
it has a history that is thousands of years long, it has spaceships that use jump drives and is populated by multiple species, but the thing is, it all is fictional, existing only in cyberspace, although its inhabitants don't know that, as far as they know they are exploring, and colonizing the galaxy using the miraculous Jump Drives to quickly get them to their destination.


Their IQ's will have to be bottom of the barrel to not quickly figure out the ruse. I mean, climb up a tall tree and drop a ball... :wink:
 
sideranautae said:
Tom Kalbfus said:
it has a history that is thousands of years long, it has spaceships that use jump drives and is populated by multiple species, but the thing is, it all is fictional, existing only in cyberspace, although its inhabitants don't know that, as far as they know they are exploring, and colonizing the galaxy using the miraculous Jump Drives to quickly get them to their destination.


Their IQ's will have to be bottom of the barrel to not quickly figure out the ruse. I mean, climb up a tall tree and drop a ball... :wink:
The simulation would simulate the ball drop dropping just fine, also the people and creatures in the simulation aren't really there either, until they are actualized when they step through the portal on the floor of the Niven Ring. if someone is clever enough to figure out its just a simulation, well they are part of the simulation too, the word can either get out, or the program could just make him forget what he just realized and everything would go on as before. Everything that goes on in simulated people's minds are also part of the simulation, and this also makes things like Psionics (mind reading) work too!
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
Their IQ's will have to be bottom of the barrel to not quickly figure out the ruse. I mean, climb up a tall tree and drop a ball... :wink:
The simulation would simulate the ball drop dropping just fine, also the people and creatures in the simulation aren't really there either, until they are actualized when they step through the portal on the floor of the Niven Ring[/quote]


So, the explorers aren't really on a ring world interacting with real matter? That is the only way it would work. Then, you wouldn't need a ring world... :lol:
 
It is a grand Idea, Go for it...

A couple of things, Niven Ring is confusing, the commonly used nomenclature among Fans for these sorts of structures is Ringworld. Reasoning is Niven has done a couple of works based on large scale inhabited Rings, thus it helps to be specific.

Why I say Halos instead of a Ringworld is they are smaller, orbital artifacts, but that is my vision borrowed from my sons favorite Video game series... And there a bunch of amusing macro structures in that line as well. And the books amuse me.
 
The Halos in the game series of the same name are based upon Iain Bank's Orbitals (according to published comments by Bungie Studios). That's yet another take on the concept of a Ringworld, although smaller.
 
Lord High Munchkin said:
The Halos in the game series of the same name are based upon Iain Bank's Orbitals (according to published comments by Bungie Studios). That's yet another take on the concept of a Ringworld, although smaller.
Halos don't have 3 million times Earth's surface. My take on it is if you have a Niven Ring (Ringworld), you don't need an FTL drive, Ringworld is itself a "Universe" unto itself.

The Scenario goes something like this. A civilization colonizes space, but never discovers an FTL drive, turns out to be impossible as far as they can tell, Colonies are established in other star systems, but they are far away. Most planets do not support life, and those that do are not hospitable to humans, there is a lot of development on the internet, Artificial Intelligence is established in computers, space colonies are built , asteroids are mined, nanotechnology is implemented. Work begins on the construction of a ringworld, in the neighboring star system, since they don't want to dismantle the Solar System. Alpha Centauri has no habitable planets, but lots of construction material for building a ringworld, Meanwhile progress is made towards human uploading, biological humans become extinct as people choose to upload and inhabit virtual computer worlds, that are much more interesting that actual planets orbiting stars. Nanotech devices continue building the ringworld, a task that takes thousands of years. What's left of humanity evolved into something else and moved on, no longer needing Earthlike planets with oxygen atmospheres on which to live, but the machines which have completed the ringworld no find there is no one to inhabit it, so they create virtual worlds based on common science fiction ideas, that never panned out in the real world, but could exist in a specially created simulated world. The AIs running the ringworld then decides it needs inhabitants, so they create physical bodies and download the virtual simulated human brains into them, recreating them out of organic molecules.
 
Tom Kalbfus said:
My take on it is if you have a Niven Ring (Ringworld), you don't need an FTL drive, Ringworld is itself a "Universe" unto itself.

For certain values of "you", sure.

Got a book in the collection here somewhere that posits something like your approach, only with a full Dyson Sphere. Built many aeons ago, it has been found and colonized many times, eventually attracting the entirety of races to abandon space and move in wholesale. None of them has ever needed anything like all of the available living space, and the absence of need to find more living space has tamed every race that moved in. When the Humans arrive, they find several enclaves of completely different races, slowly fading into senescence.
 
Wait...

They build a ringworld that the uploaded humans don't need and the evolved humans don't use? For some reason, we need to keep robots eternally gainfully employed?
 
Reynard said:
Wait...

They build a ringworld that the uploaded humans don't need and the evolved humans don't use? For some reason, we need to keep robots eternally gainfully employed?
More like nanobots, the term "robot" conjures up an image of a clunky machine that whistles and beeps made out of plastic or metal. Lets consider the Ringworld as a work of art needing sentient biologicals to complete it. The Nanobots are more on the level of gods compared to humans. There is actually a small collection of truly free willed machine intelligences here, each one is very powerful and like a Greek god having science and technology at their disposal rather than a divine portfolio, each one is a living embodiment of nanotechnology. There are a few of them here, and too many would come into conflict with each other and risk having a nanotech war, as such these nanotech gods tend to keep their distance from each other, but they still tend to get lonely and bored if left to themselves, so they crave some company which does not threaten them, old fashioned biological humans and other aliens fit the bill.
 
A nanobot is still a robot by definition and, believe me, building a ringworld will need 'bots of all sizes and that can mean HUGE especially for the macro construction. When I hear nanobots in the unimaginable quantities to create such a structure exclusively I immediately envisioned Virus and that didn't end well. Still, It could mean the ringworld would be a 'living', sentient being and nanobots are the cellular structure that constantly performs many of the functions of a living being from breathing, waste cycling and healing wounds to its structure.

And to ask clarification, who lives here besides humans in digital form or are they part of the ringworld sentience?
 
Reynard said:
A nanobot is still a robot by definition and, believe me, building a ringworld will need 'bots of all sizes and that can mean HUGE especially for the macro construction. When I hear nanobots in the unimaginable quantities to create such a structure exclusively I immediately envisioned Virus and that didn't end well. Still, It could mean the ringworld would be a 'living', sentient being and nanobots are the cellular structure that constantly performs many of the functions of a living being from breathing, waste cycling and healing wounds to its structure.

And to ask clarification, who lives here besides humans in digital form or are they part of the ringworld sentience?
Every Traveller Race Vargrs, Aslans, Dryones, the works. The thing is, the aliens aren't really aliens, they are all DNA based creatures, the computer imagined the worlds they came from, and created lifeforms derived from Earth DNA, though the imaginary history says differently. In fact all the life forms on the Ringworld are DNA based, they are derived from Earthlife, though extensive genetic engineering was used to create the "Alien" forms, the computer decided not to reinvent DNA or find alternatives to it.

I decided to make the ringworld a little bigger. The reason for this is two-fold.
For one, the Sun is always directly overhead, and nowhere on Earth is the Sun always directly overhead, day is always 12 hours long and a shadow square produces a 12 hour night. So the moment day dawns the Sun is in the high noon position. I think the ringworld surface ought to be moved further away from the star to compensate. I decided to make the radius 202,014,501.15 km the other reason is I can fit exactly 360 domains into the circumference of this ringworld, and this is important for mapping reasons as each domain is exactly 1 degree of a circle. A domain consists of 24 sectors 3 north to south and 8 sectors wide, this makes the dimensions of a domain 3,525,818.18 km east to west and 1,920,000 km north to south.

Each sector is 640,000 km north to south and
440,727.27 km east to west.

And each sector consists of 16 subsectors 4 subsectors north to south and 4 subsectors east to west.
Each subsector is 10 hexes north to South and 8 hexes east to west.
A subsector consisting of 16,000 km wide hexes north to south is therefore 160,000 km north to south and 110,181.82 km east to west, I know I measured it, drew a subsector with regular hexagons (all equal length sides) and measured the number of pixels north to south and east to west.
Each hex can be broken up into megahex map that is 20 hexes from north to south, thus each of the smaller hexes is 800 km north to south.

Each 16,000 km wide hex can be uniquely identified under this mapping system.
The last three digits identify the hex in each subsector: 101 to 810 as per the standard subsector map sheet. The subsectors themselves are addressed with the first 16 letters in the alphabet A-P, thus the firsy digit would b one of those letters, a hex in subsector A might be A407 for instance with the letter A identifying what subsector its in.
A domain has 24 sectors in it labeled by the first 24 letters in the alphabet A-X. A hex in a particular subsector within a sector within a domain might be FA407 for example.

Finally there are 360 domains in the ringworld. A uniquely identified 16,000 km-wide hex might be 181FA407 for example. Another hex might be 087GB308, with leading zeros to identify in what position particular hex is at.

So how many 16,000 km hexes are there in the ringworld? Lets do the math.
80 hexes per subsector
with 16 subsectors in a sector, there are
1,280 hexes per sector
with 24 sectors in a domain, there are
30,720 hexes per domain
with 360 domains in the ringworld, we have
11,059,200 hexes in the ringworld. Each hex can be treated as a world in a standard Traveller map. Each hex has a size of A and an atmosphere of 6. roll 2d6-2 for the hydrographic percentage, then roll 2d6-2 for population and roll for government and law level as you normally would for a world, except attribute it to one of these map hexes instead, then you roll the tech level of each hex. If you like you can roll for "system presence" say with a standard distribution, an "empty hex" means a hex full of ocean instead of land. This would produce an overall hydrographic percentage for ringworld of about 75%, very similar to Earth, or we could produce something closer to what Larry Niven had which was 50% ocean coverage. What do you think?

Tech levels range from 0 to G, and the societies on the Ringworld come from the virtual Traveller setting. There are other settings as well. Each hex can has the computer area under it capable of simulating a virtual world There are 11,059,200 virtual worlds that can be simulated, half of those 5,500,000 are traveler worlds, the other half are historical or perhaps prehistorical, some of the lifeforms from these worlds as well are reproduced on the surface of ringworld including dinosaurs, woolly mammoths, cavemen, pirates, knights in shining armor, Revolutionary War soldiers, farmers, pioneers, Cowboys and Indians German pilots from World War I and II, and people who have disappeared in the Bermuda triangle, to name a few examples.

Another idea is to give each 16,000 km hex its own polar ice cap in the center. That is the closer one moves toward the center or the hex, the colder the climate gets, also the climate varies with seasons over a 365 ringworld day cycle, this is accomplished through radiators on the underside of the ringworld surface. Larry Niven employed these for his Map of Earth and other planets on his ringworld's Great Ocean, but I don't see why this couldn't be done for every hex. each hex represent climatically one hemisphere of a planet, the edges of each hex are tropical while the centers are polar. Radiators under the ringworld's surface draw the heat away from the centers or each hex, that way the ringworld is not all tropical, although the Sun is always in the "high noon" position when it isn't blocked by a shadow square.
 
I made a map, three sectors from rim wall to rim wall, basically 50% ocean at least. Each hex is 16,000 km wide. To give you an idea of what this means, a speeder has a maximum speed of 1100 km per hour, so a speeder needs 14.54 hours to cross a hex to go from north to south across a subsector would take 6 days, to cross a sector would take 24 days, to go from the north rim wall to the south rim wall would take 72 days. the speeder is the vehicle of choice for a ring world. A starship Jump Drive is inoperative, but I'll assume the maneuver drive works just fine, although artificial gravity plates don't. Starships become spaceships, and they are handy to get from one part of the ringworld to another if it uses a reaction drive, reactionless drives convert to magnetic propulsion, just like grav vehicles. A grav vehicle has an operational ceiling of about 100 meters above the ringworld's surface, if it has a lifting body or winds, it can glide for a stretch above that. The speeder can only propel itself off the ringworld floor if it is within 100 meters of it, this can lead to a bumpy ride if their are hills or mountains in the way. The Spill mountains are a problem for it, as unlike other mountains, these are all rock, the ringworld floor doesn't rise up with them, so one has to devise some other means or transport to get over them.
Here are a few you tube videos concerning ringworld, they are short.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ringworld&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=E4D83BA2C7B7AB24AFBFE4D83BA2C7B7AB24AFBF
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ringworld&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=E9CE6F6A83539D8A6A21E9CE6F6A83539D8A6A21
ss72.jpg
 
The picture doesn't show the walls where the thruster towers would be.

Like the people of the original Ringworld, our inhabitants would obviously see the ring as it curves up and fades in the distance. Are the various beings aware they live in an artificial structure or accept this is how the universe is?
 
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