new fleet boxes -wrong size?

[katadder]

as these are 2e boxes and should use 2e breakdowns will they be made to 5 battle points under these?

for those who have the rules you will notice some are not upto 5 battle points so mongoose unfortunately is advertising wrongly

better to get it fixed now than after official release i guess.

 

[LaranosTZ]

If they were using the armageddon splits, aye, they would have 5 battle points, if not a little bit more counting the fighters, but under the new rules, they do not quite measure up.

Old Split 1 2 3 6

Under the new split 1 2 4 6 12 18

The centauri fleet box is,

2 Primus battlecruisers (Battle)
2 Centurion attack cruisers ( Raid)
6 Vorchan warships (Skirmish)
8 Flights of Sentri fighters (Patrol)

So that would mean that there are 2 battle points in the primus, 1 battle point in the centurion, 1.5 battle points in the skirmish, and 1.5 patrol points in fighter.

Effectively that means the fleet box is a skirmish ship or two short. This is similar to every other fleet box as well, they seem to be built along the older style fleet splits, rather then the new ones.

 

[katadder]

not every fleet box just some of them.

 

[Right Hand of God]

weren't they being advertised as coming with the fighters carried by the ships in the box which don't count when you total upthe points.

 

[katadder]

which would make it even worse. they are supposed to be 5 battle point fleets. some are, some are more, some are less.

 

[Romu]

Didn't think of checking the boxes, that's disturbing indeed.

 

[Triggy]

They were all designed for the old splits. The new splits were only suggested very, very recently (after the boxed sets were finalised).

At least that's why the situation is as it is.

 

[Chernobyl]

wow, almost a complete and total FUBAR... :shock:

Chern

 

[Triggy]

wow, almost a complete and total FUBAR... :shock:

Chern

I still think I must have missed something as I never saw the published 2nd ed. splits until the layout pdf was circulated a couple of weeks ago...

 

[katadder]

TBH we had seen the splits in the rule book at least 2 months ago. possibly earlier, although that one was not decided on at the time.
however no one knew if that one was going to be the final one until we got the rulebook.
basing the box sets off armageddon breakdowns was the wrong idea, although they may have worked under an earlier FAP split we had seen as well.
who knows what goes on in mongoose, however once the final split was decided on really for a new boxset it should have been used as they are being advertised as 5pt battle forces.
as there is still about 2 weeks untils official release theres no reason they couldnt change the box sets slightly.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Under the new split 1 2 4 6 12 18

So this will be the new down split? Hm, no more reason to field ships of the agreed upon prio-level as I get more from lower ones. May the swaming begin!

 

[Greg Smith]

who knows what goes on in mongoose, however once the final split was decided on really for a new boxset it should have been used as they are being advertised as 5pt battle forces.
as there is still about 2 weeks untils official release theres no reason they couldnt change the box sets slightly.

Yes. One of the reasons I originally brought this up in an email was so that Matt had chance to make changes without it being aired in public on the boards. Oh well.

 

[katadder]

except we never hear anything even by email. needs to be changed before release really. gives them chance to change things and little bit mroe pressure.

 

[CZuschlag]

Lone Gunman's point here is probably the most critical. I'm saddened by the fact that it is now even easier to break down than before.

 

[Greg Smith]

I still think I must have missed something as I never saw the published 2nd ed. splits until the layout pdf was circulated a couple of weeks ago...

I don't think we saw the splits in exactly this form in any of the updates we had or any of the layout pdfs.

We saw three layout pdfs (rules twice, and fleet book) each of which had a different breakdowns, different methods of splitting and a different example in the fleet book. The final update was different again and all of those are different to the published version.

 

[Methos5000]

Under the new split 1 2 4 6 12 18

So this will be the new down split? Hm, no more reason to field ships of the agreed upon prio-level as I get more from lower ones. May the swaming begin!

I dont have the book in front of me but I though the armageddon splits were 1 2 3 6 12 24 if thats true it seems the only improvement (where you get more ships then before) is 2 levels down (4 instead of 3) but breaking that armageddon point down to patrol has a reduced effect now (18 instead of 24)

Now that could be a bad thing in some spots (raid level games getting that extra patrol ship especially with the twofers for mass initiative sinking) but over all in higher priority battles I dont know if it will impact it as much, I suppose it will depend on what kind of fleet you play fleets that specialize in swarm tactics using smaller ships can have a slight advantage there, but then I would think that the fleets that are more higher priority have bigger ships that can take the punishment of several smaller ships.....I hope

We will see I guess when it is released to the masses

 

[CZuschlag]

Our local group came up with the following suggestion:

1). All ships that are Patrol-level purchases that are purchased collectively (2-for-one, 3-for-one if such are designed in the future) are fired individually, unless squadroned.

2). When it is a given player's turn, that player must move at least 1 Patrol point worth of ships, either individually or an individual squadron (exception: Dilgar Pentacon.). This will require moving multiple ships, even across squadrons, at a given time if the first ship moved is not worth 1 Patrol point alone.

3). All ships that are Patrol-level purchases that are purchased collectively count on a one-for-one basis for purposes of restrictions on squadron size.

Impact: sure, you get multiple ships for a Patrol point, but you cannot initiative sink with them.

We're already getting the Havens-can't-lose-against-Drazi argument, and it's hard to disagree.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

I see your point, MGP needs to clarify how these are packaged but, these boxed sets are still a good value for the money.

Also, if you're a lead addict like me you're going to buy more figs anyway.

BTW, has anybody started working the breakdowns on these boxes yet?

 

[lastbesthope]

2). When it is a given player's turn, that player must move at least 1 Patrol point worth of ships, either individually or an individual squadron (exception: Dilgar Pentacon.). This will require moving multiple ships, even across squadrons, at a given time if the first ship moved is not worth 1 Patrol point alone.



Impact: sure, you get multiple ships for a Patrol point, but you cannot initiative sink with them.

How can you get ships worth less than a Patrol point? Other than multiple flights of fighters, which all move in the fighter phase anyway?????

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

How can you get ships worth less than a Patrol point? Other than multiple flights of fighters, which all move in the fighter phase anyway?????

LBH

Have you looked at the Sho'kos in the 2e rule book?