Necromantic Arts and Sorcery

[Simulacrum]

Hi all

Hope someone can clarify something for me:

In the sorcery section of Necromantic Arts the "power" or intensity of a spell seems to be governed by its Magnitude (manipulation), confirmed in the exmaples that are given there is in fact no reference to the Grimoire skill. Unless I am missing the point, which is quite possible - the idea that Magnitude is only used to bolster a spell to help it overcome countermagics, seems to have been superceded. Is that right or am I missing something?

Incidentally the processes of creating necromantic minions etc seems to put the A&EII sorcery enchantment rules up a bit of a blind alley - as everything else conforms to the dedictated POW device rather than "permanent magic points", which amount to the same thing in practice, but introduces different terminology.

Any help or guidance on interpretations here would be great.

 

[Dal Thrax]

So is Necromancy a new magic system or simply new applications for the current three types of magic?

Is anything in this book PC usable?

Is the book any good?

 

[Simulacrum]

There's plenty there for PCs - 50+ Divine Magic spells, a bunch of sorcery spells, items and some cults (albeit very brief write-ups) etc - for the GM there are new monsters, some NPC's to use as the base for scenario building, a scenario and more.

The book is not long - 110 pages and given the number of stat blocks etc the word count is pretty light - but on the plus side this is nearly ALL playable or play-inspiring material - and FUN - with no background fluff. So the kind of product I personally like because I can potentially use all of it.

My only questions are over the implementation of RQII rules in the Divine and Sorcery spells sections - for example in Divine Magic not just Magnitude (presume Pact/10 but it doesn't say), but also Dedicated POW, POW and POW x 5 are all used as mechanisms for determining spell effects, which I'm sure works out of the box but is pretty messy and not quite in keeping with the elegant and streamlined spirit of the RQII rules - is it a bit BRP?

Likewise on the references to Sorcery Magnitude, which seem either to misread the core RQII mechanic of Grimoire-skill driven spell effects or to supercede it by having spell-specific applications for the Magnitude manipulation - or to show up that I really missed the point in the core rules :?

So I would like someone to step in and straighten me out on this if possible.

 

[Dal Thrax]

Sounds fun though with the problem with wrong material getting printed in A&E I'm a bit gun shy about products that don't seem to be up to date with the current rules.

 

[dazzah]

Hi. Im not taking over your post just expressing that Id be interested in the answer, as I was going to get the necromancy book, but if its not following RQII rules, i may as well used my 3rd Ed books again.
Can u give an example? Is it actually a sorcery spell or more summoning/enchanting type spell, based in sorcery cult. Since ritual magic is no longer summoning and enchanting often dont follow the standard rules for the magic type they are contained in. I could live with that.

Im a bit concern as Ive bought Deus Vult now, thinking it was specifically for RQII and would also contain more explanation and new stuff in it.

Anyhow Ill let everyone know when I get it.

Also Is there going to be a new cults book for RQII or should I do some converting from my old books. Doesn`t look like it would be too hard to convert, although does head back to old ritual skills again, like summoning but Im going to put a summoning skill in my RQII but limit it depending on which cult/magic type the play is dedicated to.

 

[Mikko Leho]

Sounds fun though with the problem with wrong material getting printed in A&E I'm a bit gun shy about products that don't seem to be up to date with the current rules.

I believe Necromantic Arts was first intended as a RQ1 product but got delayed and is now released as a RQ2 book. Someone probably did a rush job converting the spells to current edition rules.

 

[Simulacrum]

It does not look as if it is packed with MRQI artefacts like A&EII. It's just this magnitude question, for example Page 18, but in effect passim in the sorcery chapter:

"...this spell can be cast on a living creature but this allows a Resilience test and the Magnitude of the spell must be equal to the target's INT. If the spell is effective..."

As I see it if that description were in the core rules, it would say that the caster can affect a target with up to 1 INT per 10 per cent of his Grimoire skill or fraction thereof.

Another necromantic sorcery spell does "1D6 points of damage per two points of Magnitude"

The sorcery chapter includes the nice feature of "Rote" spells, which are standard compinations and manipulations of listed spells. It is these that suggest that the interpretation should be for Manipulation (Magnitude) to govern the scale of effect, rather than just confused language where the same term (Magnitude) is being used for Grimoire-based effect and a sorcery manipulation.

Useful if the authors are looking in if they can clarify or if anyone can confirm or contradict my understanding of the core rules! I'm not trying to knock the product here, I just want to know what conclusions to draw.

 

[Mikko Leho]

Useful if the authors are looking in if they can clarify or if anyone can confirm or contradict my understanding of the core rules!

Don't panic ( :? ) but the author Gareth Hanrahan is no longer employed by Mongoose Publishing and therefore official answers might take some time.

 

[Mytholder]

Useful if the authors are looking in if they can clarify or if anyone can confirm or contradict my understanding of the core rules!

Don't panic ( :? ) but the author Gareth Hanrahan is no longer employed by Mongoose Publishing and therefore official answers might take some time.

That, and I wrote Necromantic Arts years ago for RQI - someone else rewrote it for RQII rules.

If I get hold of a copy, I'll see about providing some notes if I can find time.

 

[jolt]

Inconsistent terminology useage, examples that don't seem to match the current rules and the original was written for a previous edition: that pretty much screams 'Bad Cut & Paste Job' to me. Just how bad we'll have to wait and see. But, despite a fairly solid core book, my enthusiasm for MRQII is beginning to dim.

jolt

 

[almightygm]

I was going to buy this soon since I'm a fan of the undead, but I think I'll wait for the clarification as I already bought A&E and am waiting on how they're going to fix that one. If I get Necromantic Arts, I'd like a clean, correct copy (a fixed PDF, perhaps) rather than one I have to mark up all over to fix it.

That said, I guess one question for anyone who has Necromantic Arts, would changing everything in there back to the base RQII mechanics for Sorcery/Divine magic throw off the balance of the spells and abilities.

 

[dazzah]

Just wondering if there is any news on if the Necromatic arts rules stating sorcery now using manipulation, magnitutde to increase spell effects rather than skill in grimore as in core rulebook?

 

[Simulacrum]

So far as I can make out from the responses to this thread, it was originally written for MRQ1 and is now suffering from some MRQ1 artefacts due to conversion issues, rather than promoting a specific way to play the game.

I have not had time to think through whether individual spells are an easy conversion with a straight substitution of grimoire skill based effect for magnitude, but I think it is likely there will be one or two spells that need to be completely reconsidered while most are fine. I'd rather this was done officially with an errata sheet that's been signed off by Loz/Pete.

I note in another thread Soltkass has picked it up and provided an initial review - perhaps he can share his thoughts on this

 

[almightygm]

Just wondering if there is any news on if the Necromatic arts rules stating sorcery now using manipulation, magnitutde to increase spell effects rather than skill in grimore as in core rulebook?

We'll probably have to wait until the official folks have time to check this one over. This thread seems to be on the "ignore" pile at the moment. I'm sure they're terrified that they have another A&E on their hands.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

There is a map issue... a whole chapter (Necromantic Lairs) is keyed and linked to a map(s) that isn't/aren't included.

There are some maps at the back to another scenario—not bad, could have been made smaller to make room for the missing ones.

 

[soltakss]

I note in another thread Soltkass has picked it up and provided an initial review - perhaps he can share his thoughts on this

The NPCs defintely have Grimoire skills and lists of spells for each of their Grimoires, so Necromantic Arts is Grimoire-aware.

I haven't gone into the sorcery for MRQ2 in detail, unfortunately, so can't comment on whether the spells are in MRQ2 format or whether they are balanced.

The POW Sources for Necromancers make sense as the Necromancers are raiding them for their POW. This is a different mechanic from the normal one, but that's not a bad thing. Necromancers should be able to draw power from graves, necropolises and sites of mass murder and death.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

I've got this book too, but have so far only skimmed. None the less, it is clear that the conversion to RQII is a bit half-hearted. For instance, the NPcs in the Anghara adventure have combat styles but the monsters listed in the Undead Creatures chapter don't (not that it's difficult to deduce them mind you). Similarly the cult write-ups don't follow the format of the RQII core book - no cult myths are detailed (and therefore no mythic resonance values).

Now none of this renders the book useless by any means - and it looks like there's a lot of very good stuff in there - but it does seem a bit lazy.

 

[Simulacrum]

I had another delve last night...

Outside the spell descriptions, it looks like it's a simple question of non-critical errata - for example, NPC stats are grimoire-aware, but there are a few examples of MRQI vs RQII schizophrenia e.g. between whether there should be combat style skills with a weapons info table, or a weapons info table incorporating specific weapons skills. No biggie, and nothing that doesn't work as written so far as I can see.

Divine Magic - the spell descriptions are magnitude-based and while that can be considered to be a direct understanding of Pact/10 = Magnitude, I think it's really a hangover from MRQI (which I bought the books for but never played, I'm converting straight from RQ3 to RQII). Someone (or a GM for himself) should do a check to see if the assumption of Pact/10 works OK on each spell.

Sorcery - the necromatic POW source provides an alternative Enchantment mechanism compared to the permanent allocation of Magic Points in A&EII, and in order to represent the fact that creating a skeleton or zombie is intended to be a permanent act even with sorcery, it is a required mechanic if you need a necromancer's lair guarded by "always on" undead. Otherwise your necromantic magus will see his undead legions made up of single digit numbers of beasties. The POW source mechanism does have the ability to make some necromancers insanely powerful at little cost to self, however given the insane lifestyle choices involved they will almost certainly be NPCs, so that's OK...

I'm happy enough with this in any event because it fits with a sentient sacrifice process for enchantment in my own campaign and suggests or inspires ways I can elaborate on it. Which is why I buy this stuff.

The sorcery spell descriptions are, so far as I can make out and I'd be happy and relieved to be shot down on this, still framed in MRQI language. So some thought is required for those that do not use the necromantic enchantments as to whether they are balanced or not. Quite a few don't seem to have a variable effect requiring MRQI Magnitude or RQII Grimoire/10 to be factored, which is IMHO simply a qualitative design issue because it doesn't reflect the "spirit" of RQII sorcery.

Now I'm ludicrously happy and thankfully able to part with my cash for anything RQ that comes out in print, and these things don't yet affect my buying habits. However it does affect my enjoyment a little, because I expect anything published under core line branding to be authoritative - obviously with GM's right to rule it in or out - rather than a good basis for further discussion.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

I imagine the Vivamort cult might be completely overhauled at some time to bring it in line with the upcoming MRQII Cults book... there are a lot of things in it's write-up that are at odds with previous iterations.

 

[dazzah]

Just wondering if there will be an errata sheet mainly for whether the sorcery magnitude, the spells being more powerful with points in magnitude rather than grimore skill.

Also Deus Vult additional sorcery spells has a limit dexcription of Blast. It deal 1D4 per 10% Grimore and presemable has special duration of instant (rather than the core rulebook which made such sorcery spells non existant) and affects a RHL it does state this but im assuming so again.