Moving and Shooting mods.

[hithero]

Our group was generally unhappy with how the Move and Shoot rule operates as it is pointless Moving and Shooting when you can perform a Track/shoot move for the same penalty. Some will remember from earlier that I suggested that a Move & Shoot action should not give a shooting penalty and it was pointed out that turreted tanks will then lose an advantage over the fixed gun of tank destroyers. So this was tried this week by my group which got the thumbs-up from them.

The options for a vehicle shooting are:

1) Shoot only - no penalty.
2) Shoot/Move or Move/Shoot - re-roll
3) Track/Wheeled Move - cannot fire, but if targeted, your opponant has to re-roll.

This did however bring up the problem of re-rolling a re-roll as it breaks the rules - but hey, it works

Again, as most of you know, I was also unhappy with re-rolls getting a kill because they moved when they originally rolled just a hit, and no matter how you tried I still couldn't think otherwise

So, another mod not yet tried, would be to just roll an extra dice for each reason to re-roll and then take the lowest roll as the effect.

I don't think these mods over-complicate the game at all and if anything adds an extra dimension of realism, surely it must be harder to hit a fast moving tank than a stationary one?

 

[Alexb83]

Far simpler solution - if you shoot before you move, you suffer no penalties.

If you shoot on the move you must reroll. (and yes, there are situations where you would be shooting on the move - i.e. moving between cover and so forth).

If you shoot at the end of your move then you have already taken potential reaction fire to your move action, and so have already exposed yourself to a penalty.

The notion that moving /after/ you've already killed or supressed something (with the kill possibly being your motivation to move) causing some sort of temporal shift to cancel your previous action (or indeed make it better!) is a bit ludicrous.

 

[hithero]

Far simpler solution - if you shoot before you move, you suffer no penalties.

Thats not the entire issue and doesn't help in some situations ie 1 tank chasing another.

If you shoot at the end of your move then you have already taken potential reaction fire to your move action, and so have already exposed yourself to a penalty.

Most, if not all, AT weapons cannot react fire.

 

[Alexb83]

'potential reaction fire' could also read 'any other reaction which may pose a threat to the unit'.

Don't forget this is about more than just tanks and AT guns.

 

[hithero]

'potential reaction fire' could also read 'any other reaction which may pose a threat to the unit'.

Such as? You can't make a reactionary Charge move and lay explosives, tank guns cannot react, hand-held AT weapons cannot react (except PIAT for some reason (an oversight?) Sorry, can't think of any reaction that could threaten a tank. AT guns with a prior Ready action might be able to, but then I'd just shoot anyway.

 

[Alexb83]

PIAT, infantry flanking moves that get them in range to lay charges on their turn and/or for assaults, and as you mention readied guns.

As for why the PIAT can react - could be an oversight, though it was possible for one man to load and fire in short order (and with sufficient upper body strength).

 

[Graywinter]

Far simpler solution - if you shoot before you move, you suffer no penalties.

If you shoot on the move you must reroll. (and yes, there are situations where you would be shooting on the move - i.e. moving between cover and so forth).

If you shoot at the end of your move then you have already taken potential reaction fire to your move action, and so have already exposed yourself to a penalty.

The notion that moving /after/ you've already killed or supressed something (with the kill possibly being your motivation to move) causing some sort of temporal shift to cancel your previous action (or indeed make it better!) is a bit ludicrous.

I agree. It is just a case of being stubborn to ignore that a shoot then move can be performed without penalty. If you are using a vehicle's "normal" slower movement then you are already taking a penalty. We're talking about moving a vehicle a few inches here, not racing around the board.

 

[tneva82]

I agree. It is just a case of being stubborn to ignore that a shoot then move can be performed without penalty. If you are using a vehicle's "normal" slower movement then you are already taking a penalty. We're talking about moving a vehicle a few inches here, not racing around the board.

If you allow that to be without penalty you are throwing historical accuracy to trashcan. Moving&shooting(which is what move&shoot action in same turn represent, regardless of order) was INACCURATE in WW2. Now you are proposing it can be done without penalty?

Sorry but there's no reason why WW2 tanks should be able to move&shoot without penalty. That's the realm of modern tanks.

 

[Alexb83]

The important thing first and foremost is differentiating between Moving _then_ shooting, shooting _then_ moving, and shooting _whilst_ moving.

Currently the RaW class all as the latter.