Mongoose and Me

phavoc

Emperor Mongoose
Reading a few of the threads that I have started / been posted by others, that are critical of MgT, I thought I would point out something that may not be self-evident.

Yes, I am critcal of the errors that MgT has allowed to creep into the Traveller universe. Yes, I have lambasted them for their sometimes lack of good proofing of their work, their tweaking the rules where no tweaks were needed, and their apparent (thus far) lack of desire to introduce NEW things. Re-publishing old books and adventures is easy. It's NOT game design, it's simple business. They have multiple versions of Traveller source material to draw upon.

Now, aside from the criticisms that I have layed at their feet, and ones in many cases they have richly earned, I have to say that their efforts to make up for their mistakes have blunted my desire to stop purchasing the materials. When I had the first horribly edited version of High Guard, they not only took it back, but offered up a source book for free! That really impressed me. While I would much prefer they have retained the money it took for them to make such an offer (and put it towards, I dunno, hiring more proofers?), the simple fact that they went out of their way to make good their mistake definitely enhanced my decision to continue purchasing their books.

I'm sure some will say "If you don't like it, why are you here on their FREE forum?", or "If you hate things so much, why don't you go away?". To answer that is easy. First off, by being a customer I've PAID for the right to bitch (It's also guarenteed in the US Constitution, but you have to look beyond all those silly "laws" and "amendments".... plus not everyone is a yank whose job it is to bait their british cousins.. :D ). By being a customer I get that right to make my say here. Ideally someone reads these comments and takes them back to management.

The other major reason I'm here is that I DO enjoy the game and it's rich history. I have purchased every Traveller version that was published, with the exception of the D20 stuff (wasn't gaming much then). And I still have all that stuff. I WANT MgT to succeed at their Traveller publications. But I'm also not going to sit idly by and not voice my opinion when I've paid for that right.

Ok. I'm getting off the soapbox now. I would like to very much hear what the rest of you (active posters and lurkers alike) feel towards the game and how well (or not) that MgT is working on their version of it.
 
phavoc said:
(It's also guarenteed in the US Constitution...

I hate to nitpick but ... The US Constitution does not guarantee free "bitching". Amendment I states:

U.S. Constitution said:
Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ...

So all it says is that Congress cannot tell you what you can or cannot say. It doesn't say anything about a private company. Just ask Juan Williams or anyone else that's been fired for saying something the company didn't like. Secondly, Mongoose is a U.K. Company. If the internet had territory, this would probably count as U.K. territory so you would probably have to play by their rules.

[/nitpick]
 
dmccoy1693 said:
phavoc said:
(It's also guarenteed in the US Constitution...

I hate to nitpick but ... The US Constitution does not guarantee free "bitching". Amendment I states:

U.S. Constitution said:
Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ...

So all it says is that Congress cannot tell you what you can or cannot say. It doesn't say anything about a private company. Just ask Juan Williams or anyone else that's been fired for saying something the company didn't like. Secondly, Mongoose is a U.K. Company. If the internet had territory, this would probably count as U.K. territory so you would probably have to play by their rules.

[/nitpick]

It was meant to be factual statement. Tongue-in-cheek would be more accurate.

Away you nitwit! :lol:
 
Personally I have found the complaints waaaaaayy over blown. Take High Guard for example, I was using it last night for the new game I have started up with two of my kids. It was a great resource, I just wish it has some 20 ton fighters since I don't like the simple 10 ton fighters.

The only book I have really agreed about was Mercenary's, but the errata is up, and I have it printed and in my copy, so I am all good with even that, now. It would have been nice if they hadn't screwed it up that badly to begin with, but apparently they have learned their lesson, because I am not seeing much in the way of accurate/valid complaints since then. Certainly nothing to the scale of Mercenary. Not even 1/3 as bad.

Now I was a bit disturbed over Matt's response to the complaints about the new "Hours" book, but like I said in that thread, I am pretty sure Matt was just having an off day, since Historically he, and Mongoose as a whole, have been pretty classy about product complaints. The last thing I want them to do is become complacent about making their customers happy. So I want to see a very enthusiastic attitude about improving their product lines, not making excuse's for when they drop the ball, or arguing that it is "good enough".

Still, over all, I am extremely pleased with Mongoose's repackaging and expansion of Traveller. When I use my Classice and even MegaTraveller resources, I have a lot of books and magazines I usually have to look through to gather the info I need. Last night when I started up this new game of mine I pulled out the Core, High Guard, and the CSC, that was it.

I really like that.
 
Treebore said:
Personally I have found the complaints waaaaaayy over blown. Take High Guard for example, I was using it last night for the new game I have started up with two of my kids. It was a great resource, I just wish it has some 20 ton fighters since I don't like the simple 10 ton fighters.

HG is a good book. Liked the small craft design section. Only thing I had to do was pull some small craft accommodations from MT design rules.
 
DFW said:
Treebore said:
Personally I have found the complaints waaaaaayy over blown. Take High Guard for example, I was using it last night for the new game I have started up with two of my kids. It was a great resource, I just wish it has some 20 ton fighters since I don't like the simple 10 ton fighters.

HG is a good book. Liked the small craft design section. Only thing I had to do was pull some small craft accommodations from MT design rules.

Yeah, I was looking at that for creating some 20 ton fighters. Looking for better computers and better armor, for the most part.
 
I have only praise for Mongoose. They have been fair players, paying what is due in a full and timely manner, and they have been very good to me.
 
I'm a younger player (mid-twenties), so I like Mongoose republishing older supplements I no longer have access to. MGT is reaching a whole new demographic and player base, and being told to buy or pirate out of print copies in order to get rules or errata is really frustrating.

Supplements that cover books I don't have AND I don't need to convert? Sign me up.

My biggest problem is the editing, especially since I've done editing work professionally. It's great they offer replacements when there's a screw-up, but hiring another dedicated editor will go a long way. Hell, I'd do it for free merch!

My second biggest problem is cheesecake art. I'm a woman, and I really hate seeing men portrayed as being strong and capable, and women are glorified space!strippers in space!bikinis. I mean, really? The reprinting of the Core Book is the worst for this. I don't want to buy a game that implies my gender is only good for T&A.

I will give Mongoose props for a really good gender split in 1,001 Characters. Capable women in the military? Awesome. Women crime bosses? Double awesome. Including a Matriarchy but not a Patriarchy? Not so awesome, but I'll buy the argument you can gender-flip (I would have liked to see it coded as both, in that case).
 
Matian said:
My second biggest problem is cheesecake art. I'm a woman, and I really hate seeing men portrayed as being strong and capable, and women are glorified space!strippers in space!bikinis. I mean, really? The reprinting of the Core Book is the worst for this. I don't want to buy a game that implies my gender is only good for T&A.

Well, I'm not female but happen to agree about the stereotyping but it is pretty common in the RPG industry.

That said, I pretty much just ignore it anyways I don't get the books for the art.
 
AndrewW said:
Matian said:
My second biggest problem is cheesecake art. I'm a woman, and I really hate seeing men portrayed as being strong and capable, and women are glorified space!strippers in space!bikinis. I mean, really?...
Well, I'm not female but happen to agree about the stereotyping but it is pretty common in the RPG industry.
Being a red blooded American male myself I have a great appreciation for the female form...

BUT...

In all my time involved with Roleplaying (Since 1981) I have NEVER gotten the T&A mentality of any artist. My friends & players hate me when I get on the subject because I'm "Mr. Can we get even an OUNCE of realism here". My favorite image to go off about is a classic D&D pic, lovely redhead wearing fur boots to shin, big fur cape blowing in the wind, chain mail bikini, steel viking helmet (w horns) and she's standing in a big snowdrift in the middle of some arctic wilderness. OMG If I want soft porn I'll go buy some this is GAMING DAMMIT!

And yes, the core book is bad. The researcher long black hair perfect figure perky breasts tight tshirt cut off between breasts and navel looking all sultry.. yeah right. give me a break.

Anyway, so Matian, count me in your camp on this. One day well get RPG books that doesn't need a massive "T&A Factor" to think of itself as a good Role Playing Book.
 
In my case, I think the Mongoose Traveller stuff is great.

Now I'm in a different situation from a lot of the posters, who say "well it's just supplement #4,756,321 reprinted and converted for the new rules".

Maybe it is. But many of us don't have twenty years of back catalogue. In some cases the damn thing's out of print anyway. So I appreciate Mongoose bringing back the foundations that the game system was built on.

I also like the diversifying of the system. The Strontium Dog/Judge Dredd/Babylon 5 stuff makes a pleasant addition, and I'd love to see Starship Troopers and/or other 2000 AD (i.e. Rogue Trooper and Scarlet Saint) added in.




No, Mongoose's products aren't perfect. Sometimes, there are significant issues, but for the most part they're niggles, not major problems. I suppose in part it helps that this is an RPG - a slight screw-up in balance in an RPG just requires a deft touch from a GM to correct, where a similar issue in a wargame results in "not five bloody Tertius-class battlecruisers again..."
 
I have got variious Traveller supplements from most incarnations of the game but I still enjoy those Mongoose products I have chosen.

I particularly like the way the Alien modules are done by combining them with a detailed sector (subsector for Darrians) to showcase them.
 
My issue isn't with the company. It's with the quality of the product. Once you publish a book you can't just insert new pages when you find an "oopsie!". Obviously a typo here, a transposed digit there, all are reasonable errors that you find in many books of many types.

BUT.... usually they are not the norm, and most people don't buy books sometimes cringing in wonder when they open it up about the errors awaiting them.

The core rulebook screwup with the deck plans - inexcusable. The ships and those deck plans have been around for 20yrs. There is no justifiable excuse for that. So now I have a dozen pages sticking in the back of my book. Is it a game-killer? No. Is it disappointing and frustrating? Yes.

The web has made it far easier for publishers to get errata (or software patches) to the users quickly. I give the same scathing lambasting to companies who release a new game and then have a 500mb "Patch" the day it releases because they were rushing an unfinished product out the door.

I WANT Mongoose to continue to publish new Traveller material. It would be nice if they were to add things to the Traveller universe. But if you are just going to republish materials that have been around, then at least publish them correctly! I don't think that's too much to ask of a professional company. I know my customers would be highly peeved, if not suing me, for doing similar things with my businss.

I don't want or need to pick on Mongoose too much. However, I do firmly believe that if customers don't make enough noise, a company is not going to change things or how they are delivering goods/services. This maxim holds true in just about every industry I am aware of. Complacency = bad. Because I don't want them to go out of business, it's not practical to simply stop buying their materials. Then nobody wins.
 
Well, I have worked for a small publishing company for some years, and
therefore know the typical problems of this kind of business quite well. In
my view Mongoose is doing rather well, with not more blunders than are
to be expected, and with a much better customer service than most other
firms. I see no reason to complain much, especially since the Mongooses
are usually well aware of what went wrong and try to solve the problems.

Besides, from what I have seen so far there has only been one really se-
rious blunder that was completely caused by Mongoose, the vehicle de-
sign system. All the other problems I have seen were either unimportant
or caused by the printer, not the publisher.
 
If they are going to publish in PDF (they do) and they publish errata and fix typos, etc., they should update the PDFs and allow a new download. THAT would go a long way to having excellent service...
 
DFW said:
If they are going to publish in PDF (they do) and they publish errata and fix typos, etc., they should update the PDFs and allow a new download. THAT would go a long way to having excellent service...
Well, as far as I know they do.
 
No one is perfect. I prefer books to PDFs so I buy the books, running the risk of buying stuff with errors (because I buy the MgT books as soon as I can get my hands on them). Even if I'm not going to be using them straight away.

As long as Mongoose publish errata, I'm happy. With the first core book there were a few errors so I applied them by hand and laser printed the others and glued them onto the appropriate pages.

When it comes to core rules, we have a simple system. One person uses the second version of the core rules, I use the first version and we make corrections when errors are noticed.
 
rust said:
DFW said:
If they are going to publish in PDF (they do) and they publish errata and fix typos, etc., they should update the PDFs and allow a new download. THAT would go a long way to having excellent service...
Well, as far as I know they do.

Yes, as I stated in my post. ;)
 
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