Modifiers and Range

[First Age]

Given the modifiers table on page 156, how are the Ranges supposed to work in the Spacecraft Scale Weapons table on page 158?

It wasn't clear to me?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The range modifiers on page 156 are just some DMs for your Gunner skill checks.

The ranges listed on page 158 are for the weapons listed next to them.

156 is for determining if you succeed at hitting something.
158 is for determining the damage done by a hit.

 

[First Age]

The range modifiers on page 156 are DMs for your Gunner skill checks.

Yep that was pretty clear.

The ranges listed on page 158 are for the weapons listed next to them.

Right, it must be me, but...

p.158 Beam Laser Medium Range.

Does that mean that Medium is the maximum range for the Beam Laser?

 

[First Age]

The range modifiers on page 156 are DMs for your Gunner skill checks.

Yep that was pretty clear.

The ranges listed on page 158 are for the weapons listed next to them.

Right, it must be me, but...

p.158 Beam Laser Medium Range.

Does that mean that Medium is the maximum range for the Beam Laser?

Oh I've just spotted "Note that, for Spacecraft scale weapons, ranges are listed in Range Bands and they cannot attack targets that lie beyond their listed Range Band."

Might be worth putting Maximum Range as the column title for Range on 158?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Does that mean that Medium is the maximum range for the Beam Laser?

It means operational range. Anything more and there is a penalty.

Might be worth putting Maximum Range as the column title for Range on 158?

Make it so.

 

[First Age]

[t means operational range. Anything more and there is a penalty.

Oooooh, right. So, the Pulse Laser has an Operational Range of Long. As such it doesn't get the -2 Penalty for Long Range, but the Beam Laser (Medium Operational Range) does?

Therefore both Pulse and Beam get the -4 Very Long penalty?

Have I got it?!

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I would say yes. And I know I will never look at that chapter again. I must have page-flipped 50 times trying to keep weapons ranges penalties straight. That stuff all needs to be on the same chart on the same page if values can't be done in our heads, and we're trying to do all this by the book.

 

[First Age]

I would say yes. And I know I will never look at that chapter again. I must have page-flipped 50 times trying to keep weapons ranges penalties straight. That stuff all needs to be on the same chart on the same page if values can't be done in our heads, and we're trying to do all this by the book.

I'll bet!

Yes, stating in some way that the range attack penalties only apply if it is beyond the operational range of the weapon would be a great addition. Or a sectionm to explain what Operational Range means for starship weapons. An example text section might also help?

Thanks for your help with this.

 

[Rockymountainnavy]

Nowhere in my pdf does the word "operational" even exist so I don't see where the operational range concept is derived from.

Spacecraft Weapons on p.157 which states "they cannot attack targets beyond their listed Range Band" seems pretty explicit to me. Taken together with the various weapon definitions that follow it seems clear that weapons have a range limit. A Beam Laser has a range of Medium (p. 158). It CANNOT shoot a target at Long Range. A Pulse Laser has a range of Long; when shooting a target at such range it suffers a DM-2 (p. 156).

 

[First Age]

Spacecraft Weapons on p.157 which states "they cannot attack targets beyond their listed Range Band" seems pretty explicit to me. Taken together with the various weapon definitions that follow it seems clear that weapons have a range limit. A Beam Laser has a range of Medium (p. 158). It CANNOT shoot a target at Long Range. A Pulse Laser has a range of Long; when shooting a target at such range it suffers a DM-2 (p. 156).

Thanks for that clarification. Hopefully that is right then. I'll play it the way that you suggest until anyone official updates us.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

I agree, the way the rules are written at this times makes it clear that a weapon cannot fire beyond its max range.

ShawnDriscoll's interpretation that it actually is operational or effective range does sound good though. A bit weird for a weapon to be super-accurate, super-accurate, nothing. On the other hand, if the intent is for a weapon to ignore negative modifiers up to it's stated range, the text needs to be changed.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Spacecraft Weapons on p.157 which states "they cannot attack targets beyond their listed Range Band" seems pretty explicit to me. Taken together with the various weapon definitions that follow it seems clear that weapons have a range limit. A Beam Laser has a range of Medium (p. 158). It CANNOT shoot a target at Long Range. A Pulse Laser has a range of Long; when shooting a target at such range it suffers a DM-2 (p. 156).

This is correct - simply apply all DMs that are applicable.

 

[chiron0224]

Here's how I understood it using a pulse laser as an example.

My target is at long range.

Pulse laser's max range is long range so that is a viable target.

Long range is a -2 penalty (just because a pulse laser can reach that far doesn't mean it's any easier to actually hit something out there, but wait....)

Pulse laser provides +2 to attack rolls (guess the fact that I'm firing a stream of glow sticks makes it easier to tell where I'm aiming)

My gunner skill is 1 and my dex DM is +1

I have a sensors lock and I could just kiss the sensors op.

Here's what I roll 3D(keeping best 2) +2

If we can close the range to medium I stop taking the penalty for long range but keep the boost from Pulse laser (again, glow sticks) and so this is what I would roll 3D9(keeping best 2) +4

 

[arcador]

What about missiles and torpedoes. Do we still apply the range penalty for firing missiles?

 

[chiron0224]

don't know, I haven't tried a fight with missiles. Will do one tonight and see how it goes.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

Spacecraft Weapons on p.157 which states "they cannot attack targets beyond their listed Range Band" seems pretty explicit to me. Taken together with the various weapon definitions that follow it seems clear that weapons have a range limit. A Beam Laser has a range of Medium (p. 158). It CANNOT shoot a target at Long Range. A Pulse Laser has a range of Long; when shooting a target at such range it suffers a DM-2 (p. 156).

This is correct - simply apply all DMs that are applicable.

What does the pulse-width-modulation of a light beam have to do with its coherency??? If one kind of laser can be coherent at that range, so can the other, without a very good reason why not...

 

[chiron0224]

Spacecraft Weapons on p.157 which states "they cannot attack targets beyond their listed Range Band" seems pretty explicit to me. Taken together with the various weapon definitions that follow it seems clear that weapons have a range limit. A Beam Laser has a range of Medium (p. 158). It CANNOT shoot a target at Long Range. A Pulse Laser has a range of Long; when shooting a target at such range it suffers a DM-2 (p. 156).

This is correct - simply apply all DMs that are applicable.

What does the pulse-width-modulation of a light beam have to do with its coherency??? If one kind of laser can be coherent at that range, so can the other, without a very good reason why not...

It's because the electromagnetic phase variance used to contain the plasma bolt is modulated in an anphasic sequence directly contingent to the stator, thus prolonging the coherence of the modulated plasma induction. This is, of course, the result of direct turbo-encabulation within the logarithmic casing of the manifold.

jk. It's because of handwavium. The way in which the laser is cut into distinct bolts is never really explained, but whatever the hell process is used could hypothetically allow for the greater range. In game terms it makes for an interesting variety in weapons where one has a better range and damage but worse accuracy than the other.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

I hear what you are saying gameplay wise, but engineering wise, it makes absolutely no sense. I'm not advocating against diverse equipment, but there has to be a damn good explanation to justify it. For instance, why can't both weapons use the same mirrors and lenses to focus the beams the same way?

 

[chiron0224]

I get what you're saying, but I still feel like this is a fun vs realism debate and I just sit more on the side of fun. Besides, one thing that permeates this and the last rulebook is a desire to make rules that aren't too complicated and allow the players to have a good time playing sci fi games with lasers, explosions, and whoosh noises. The game can't possibly be all things to all players and I think that MgT is trying to be more "player friendly" and less "engineering degree" friendly over all. So while common sense would dictate that a laser is a laser is a laser, the fun aspect allows for different weapon types with different properties. It's never explained in any detail exactly how it is that the pulse laser pulses so you're free to imagine that whatever that difference is it also allows for an increase of range and damage but a decrease in accuracy.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I get what you're saying, but I still feel like this is a fun vs realism debate and I just sit more on the side of fun.

This is it.

Think of the laser weapons you see in films.

Beam Lasers in Traveller are the ones that go zzzzzzaaaaapppppp! Pulse Lasers are the one that go pew-pew-pew.

Really is as simple as that.