Models Too Expensive? ( points )

[B_Steele]

I know that I'm planning on running a 'Evolution' tournament at some point (probably next year's Origins...but don't quote me on that). When I do so, it will say something like this:

Bring your Evolution Army to the table and battle Skinnies, Marines, MI and whatever else your fellow gamers decide to drop down on top of you!

Bring either a 1,000 Battlefield Evolution, 650 point Starship Troopers: Evolution or XXXXXXX army and compete against your friends from across the galaxy!

I figure it will take some serious playtesting around my gamer group to find a nice middle-point level, and will need to include any and all other Evolution lines we produce...but I think it is possible for open-minded gamers that aren't going to numbercrunch all day long and whine if their Fedeyeen (or what not) are not good enough. You know what I mean?

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[Locutus9956]

Hmm the only problem there is the the problem in how you score such a game if you want to do a tournament. Either you need to do a fight to the death/surrender or an objective based victory condition, as if the sides are unequal points you cant just make it VP based or problems will abound

 

[B_Steele]

Ah ha...planning on doing turn-based games with objective-based scoring. As long as it is not totally bent towards stricly "take and hold" style objectives (which the MI would probably win out on every time), it should still be competitive.

Again, it's gonna take some playtesting with my group...and some open-minded, non-whiny players. Again, I haven't cleared any of this with the bossmen yet, so it could get squashed at the top.
But I think I'm a savvy enough wargames designer/player to come up with something.

-Bry

 

[Mr Evil]

personaly i say run the 2 seperate at tourney level as there both set with different game play in mind, ie bf-evo more contemporary while sst is science fiction, unless you allow bf-evo units so kill a tanker or a chicken in a single killshot the game just wont balance or seem faie, and then people will complan why a MI gun is not as effective as a SAW for example.

the 2 are different games like WH40k and WHfantasy but there is enough similarity where you could play one against the other for shits and giggles with some cans of beer in hand for fun, to run them against each other in a tournament would leave alot of people with a bad taist in their mouths and should be avoided unless you wish to put people of the games.

 

[Rob_A]

Can Ijust ask why you would want to?

SST:Evo and BF:Evo will probably be compatible.
Hordes and Warmachine are the same setting, same time, same world. SST and BF:Evo however are not.
Stop yakking and play BF:Evo! :lol:

 

[Larac]

I could see using, the BFEvo stuff as a force, in a back woods planet trying to fight off bugs or others.

It would take balancing, but it would be a fun game.


I like Objective based games, as they allow forces to not be even, but both sides can win.

They are harder to write and even harder to balance, but when they work they are great games.

3 Inf Groups from BFEvo, a few light vechicles and the one Ape suit they have, vs a swarm of bugs.

That could be great fun!

Lee

 

[Locutus9956]

you could do some interesting cross overs like, what happend if the bugs invaded earth about 200 years earlier? (or whenever, not sure exactly when SST is set datewise)

 

[captainsmirk]

That'll be pretty scary those bugs are going to be fr***king huge compared to the BF:Evo minis...


Nick

 

[Locutus9956]

Hello bug: Meet Challenger tank to the face..... :twisted:

hmmm just out of curiosity I wonder how many bugs a depleted uranium SABOT round would actually go through before stopping? :lol:

 

[tneva82]

Hello bug: Meet Challenger tank to the face..... :twisted:

Good luck for the shooting...You'll need minimum 3 turns before tanker will die...

 

[Locutus9956]

Well thats for current rules, for SST Evo would there not be kill scores for Tankers like anything else?

 

[tneva82]

Well thats for current rules, for SST Evo would there not be kill scores for Tankers like anything else?

Kill score yes but instead it will count as 2 failed armour save rolls...Which is btw good concidering amount of high weaponry you can GET in SST...If kill would be insta death why bother taking tankers and other multi-hit models? They would die instantly...

Which is one reason why marauder platoon would EAT BF:evo armies. Chickenhawk can insta-kill 2 tanks a turn while in turn it will take minimum 2 turns(or 2 tanks) to take out chickenhawk in a go.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

why can a chickenhawk insta-kill 2 tanks in a turn?

 

[tneva82]

why can a chickenhawk insta-kill 2 tanks in a turn?

Well albeit I'm assuming here but I would assume that chickenhawk will retain it's ability to fire unlimited time in turn as before(infinite weapons) and won't be reduced in ability. Javelin(atleast was. Again I'm assuming they won't be changing style too much) was very, very, good at scoring high values so I would be expecting it to be minimum d10+3(that would still generally weaken it. Against tankers, which it was often firing, it was rolling d10+4).

2 shots per turn each being d10+3=potential to insta kill 2 tank in a turn.

Albeit luck is needed but possibility is there

Just one more reason why they won't be crossfighting each other on all that equal terms...

Albeit I'm assuming couple of things but I don't think they are going to change style of units all that much. For example chickenhawks unlimited ammunition and javeling being excelent armour buster...Add to that BF:evo tanks insta kill rule and off you go.

 

[SickBunny]

Uhmhmh... has someone said that the Instakill rule has been removed in SST:Evo? I know they have made a specific mention about Tanker Bugs not dying instantly... but Marauders are not as high of a sacrifice in points as Tankers are...

So perhaps they will keep the rule of Kill score=An instant death but just give the Tankers and other such hard to kill models a special rule that turns a Kill into two hits on their card...

Now from a personal point of view, I damn well want to see my Arachnids devour USMC and test exactly how well does an Exo squad match up to ultramodern armour... :lol:

And battlefield atomics... well... Heh...

And people are once again assuming an awful lot about rules we have yet to see. I know that some of you got to frolic with the preliminary Evo rules, what, six months or more ago? I think perhaps the rules may have -evolved- since then... (Sorry, had to do it...)

But either way, I will gladly do the conversion works required to make Col Hammer and mine plan to redo the War of the Worlds with USMC Vs Forth... :twisted:

Also, as Mr. Sprange often likes to state... here is a good chance for a S&P article... :wink:

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

You could only fire a Javelin once per turn though - while the launcher changed to infinite, the missile ramined pack, or something.

 

[tneva82]

I know they have made a specific mention about Tanker Bugs not dying instantly... but Marauders are not as high of a sacrifice in points as Tankers are...

It would effectively make marauders etc about 1.5 hit at most...Not particulary usefull...

Marauders strong point was from the beginning being TOUGH. You wanted mobility? Call cap trooppers or exosuits. You want firepower? Call cap trooppers or exosuits. You want durability? Call marauders...

With 1 reaction only rule cutting down firepower even further it's even MORE obvious that the strong point of marauders is most definetly durability. The fact they can take up multiple hits and keep on walking...

Introducing insta kill rule for kill value in game which is bristling with big guns(I think there's mention of game being very much about big guns shooting or something to that effect in designers notes :lol would make marauders suddenly very, very vulnerable.

Why add that rule then? Just to ease BF:evo & SST:evo crossover games? Two different games. No need for that. You REALLY want to play them you can simply adjust point total for each sides appropriatly...It's not like Mongoose is going to come to your house and kill you if you give BF:evo armies more points than SST:evo armies in crossover game :lol:

The kill=dead suits for BF:evo but not so much SST:evo.

Now from a personal point of view, I damn well want to see my Arachnids devour USMC and test exactly how well does an Exo squad match up to ultramodern armour... :lol:

And as I have said: You can do it but do give BF:evo armies more points to compensate. Something like double it That ought to sort it out.

 

[Scenv]

i think mongoose should at least try to make BF and SST balanced in points. than there will be like 8 armies. im hoping im not the only person who wants to see marines fighting against giant bugs, or a tank trying to take on a Forth robot. 8)

who agrees?!

 

[Turtle]

I don't agree, despite the same desire to want to pit USMC vs Arachnids.

While I will certainly test BFE armies against SST armies, it's really nothing more than a fun little test.

Mongoose needs to worry about balancing the armies of one game against each other, asking them to come up with a point spread for two sets of armies of vastly different strength, technology, and methodology is insane. Not even 40k designers have to deal with that. And they have, what 9 different armies now?

It's also not just the point values, it's the relative weapon and unit strengths. You may end up with units that are weirdly good at killing something it should have no chance against only because it was balanced for a different mix of units.

 

[tneva82]

i think mongoose should at least try to make BF and SST balanced in points. than there will be like 8 armies. im hoping im not the only person who wants to see marines fighting against giant bugs, or a tank trying to take on a Forth robot. 8)

who agrees?!

I don't agree.

Too much trouble, will lead essentially to SST:evo point values going up the roof(cap trooppers 50 pts or so, marauders 500-600) so SST tournaments would have artificially high point values for tournaments(welcome to SST:Evo tournament! Bring along your 8000 point army!) and is unneeded. Plus will create additional work for Mongoose. You want to slow down release schedelude for BOTH games for that?

For friendly games you can do that anyway by fudging with point totals. Only reason for that would be to do combined tournaments where those armies are fighting anyway and if you do non-victory point dependant scenarios that can still be done via mentioned up the size of BF:evo method...