Lumberingan and speed

[jimmor]

Again one of the rules makes me uneasy: lumbering trait. J uderstand how it works, but I am not sure if it was intended like that.

Consider Warlock and Amu. Warlock is a quite fast, deadly big warship (8", 1/45) and Amu is some kind of space city (craftword? ...erh other universe). It is supposed to lumber slowly through the space (4", 1/45, lumbering). However with the rules as they are the Amu is far more Agile then the Warlock. Shouldn't there be some kind of additional note in the lumbering trait forcing the lumbering ship to move always 100% of it's speed? Stoping ship that big is not easy...

 

[Da Boss]

Warlock is not lumbering I don't think?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

No, it isn't. Lumbering just increases a ship's turning circle, while agile decreases it. In both cases ships have to move the mandated half speed unless using the All Stop! special action.

 

[H]

Again one of the rules makes me uneasy: lumbering trait. J uderstand how it works, but I am not sure if it was intended like that.

Consider Warlock and Amu. Warlock is a quite fast, deadly big warship (8", 1/45) and Amu is some kind of space city (craftword? ...erh other universe). It is supposed to lumber slowly through the space (4", 1/45, lumbering). However with the rules as they are the Amu is far more Agile then the Warlock. Shouldn't there be some kind of additional note in the lumbering trait forcing the lumbering ship to move always 100% of it's speed? Stoping ship that big is not easy...

A spitfire is more maneuvreable than an F16, but about 1400 mph slower, a ford fiesta is more manuvreable than a mclaren f1 car (trust me on this folks, it's all about turning circles!) but 100mph slower, it's the nature of the beast, go too fast, and it's a lot harder to turn!

 

[Banichi]

Lumbering also makes the big ships a wee bit more predictable. Unless you start using lots of special orders.

 

[Burger]

a ford fiesta is more manuvreable than a mclaren f1 car (trust me on this folks, it's all about turning circles!) but 100mph slower

A mclaren F1 car can only go 120mph???

 

[jimmor]

I wouldn't call Amu Spitfire... it resembles more B52. It is to be slow AND slowly turning.

 

[H]

a ford fiesta is more manuvreable than a mclaren f1 car (trust me on this folks, it's all about turning circles!) but 100mph slower

A mclaren F1 car can only go 120mph???

if your fiesta can only go 20mph, you need some help, may I recomend hiffano's supercharging shop

 

[Burger]

a ford fiesta is more manuvreable than a mclaren f1 car (trust me on this folks, it's all about turning circles!) but 100mph slower

A mclaren F1 car can only go 120mph???

if your fiesta can only go 20mph, you need some help, may I recomend hiffano's supercharging shop

Is it at the top of a hill? :lol:

 

[Banichi]

a ford fiesta is more manuvreable than a mclaren f1 car (trust me on this folks, it's all about turning circles!) but 100mph slower

A mclaren F1 car can only go 120mph???

if your fiesta can only go 20mph, you need some help, may I recomend hiffano's supercharging shop

Or you could try winding the elastic band a bit tighter :lol:

 

[katadder]

I wouldn't call Amu Spitfire... it resembles more B52. It is to be slow AND slowly turning.

lumbering has the disadvantage of no movement after turning though, which means its alot harder to bring secondaries into range after getting your main weapon on target. we did think about increasing the move before turning but this really screwed lumbering boresight ships, so this way is better.

 

[Ripple]

yeah, this way only the range eight dependent Abbai took the screw job.

Sorry, I absolutely hate Lumbering as it stands.

Once again we see bore sight forcing mechanics to function a certain way, a way that causes a number of other problems. I wish we would just put in a mechanic that would allow bore sighted ships to 'reserve' a turn for trying to sight a predesignated target and avoid all this stupidity about only being able to target ships that have already moved. That and Come About would have fixed a good bit of this.

sorry about the rant.

Ripple

 

[Gregor]

Boresight - in response to the last mail about not liking the boresight rule - why not get a boresighting ship to have to nominate a target during the movement phase for its boresighted weapon - anywhere in the normal forward or aft arcs - if the ship later moves out of arc then tough - if it can't get out then you get a shot - if it is destroyed before you shoot - tough - you lose your shot.

Overall this will increase their effectiveness / flexibility, but give a bit less freedom of choice than normal forward or aft arc weaponry.

 

[Ripple]

That would work as well, same basic idea, just depends on whether you like the cinematic look of the ship turning to face it's target. Could call it 'Slow Targeting' instead of bore sighted. Could have a little tag line of 'stay on target!' if it wasn't poached from other universes.

Still leaves lumbering ships kinda helpless if they have short ranged secondaries, but that could be addressed differently.

Ripple

 

[jimmor]

Boresight weapons are stronger then their 'angle' counterpartners - agility traided for power. They make sense on small vessels (up to Raid). On bigger - your opponent will out-manouver you with horde of small vessels unless he is a shadow.

 

[Ripple]

bore sight is not always stronger, though that is more common in second edition than in the previous one.

We were given the same song and dance in the last edition. Bore ships have more dice etc. but it often means you don't shoot twice on a single ship, or concentrate more than a couple ships on one. This means you actually have less 'effective' AD than your opponent. Especially if you judge not by your AD but by what you can remove from your opponent, where being forced to split up and only attack 'sinks' is counted in.

Ripple